A Reliable Negative Relation Between Intelligence and Religiosity

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That was a truly great post. I think you raise a really good point. In Western society "atheism" is considered cool nowadays, however being raised in the West they were still instilled with Judeo/Christian values. So, even though they don't believe they still behave like they do (overall if not specifically).

 

A self-serving conclusion, but I can no longer disagree with it. Not after what I've experienced in China.

And just to stir a little trouble: It should be Judeo/Christo/Islamic. Islam has many of the same characteristics of the other two religions, sprang from the same region, and has played a very significant role in European history. If you reason that Jewish immigrants and traders influenced western culture, then you can't deny that the expansive Islam had a similar (if not larger) influence on western culture externally. Trade disputes, religious conflict and territorial expansion hardened Christianity's approach towards conversion. Facing strong competition from Islam, it encouraged aggressive expansive colonialism to convert more people, and led to the Habsburg family in Austria becoming Holy Roman Emperor many times, as they were seen as defending the borders of Christianity against the Moors.

 

I have to point out that extremists, particularly those in power after bloody revolutions, tend to attack religion. In Russian Communism, this was done under the excuse of atheism; in Robespierrian France, they created a new "religion" devoted to the Goddess Reason. It's not about ideology in these instances; it's about power, and trying to control the populace to worshiping only what those in power approve, which is usually their own religion (in Russia, the cult of Lenin and Stalin). Stalin wasn't trying to make people non-religious and atheist, even if that's what he said he was doing. What he wanted was to make people switch from worshiping God to worshiping the state, the Communist Party, and himself. The reason "Reason" and "atheism" are chosen is precisely because there IS no body of religious texts that can disprove the autocrat and because these systems of thought do not specifically include morality (although I completely disagree with the idea that you have to believe in God/etc. to be a moral person), which meant that the system of belief they were forcing on the populace could not be used to condemn their actions. Also, there are people who feel wrong if they don't have something to worship, so by removing religion, the only thing left to worship is the autocrat/State/Ideology, which, once it is worshiped, becomes a type of religion, and is no longer atheism.

True atheism and agnosticism, at least how they've been explained to me, would not involve switching fanatic devotion from God to Stalin (or the Goddess Reason/Robespierre), because they advocate critical thinking in place of fanatic devotion to anything (whether they live up to what they advocate is an entirely different question, one that I do not want to get into at the moment). Stalin's use of atheism, on the other hand, had nothing to do with trying to get his people to use critical thinking; on the contrary, he wanted them blindly agreeing with him and worshiping him as flawless, which is exactly the opposite of critical thinking.

**Side note, I'm a pagan, so I think I actually agree and disagree with everyone on this thread -- at least, I haven't seen any other pagans on here. And I actually do not want to get involved in the larger religious debate, as I have some scars from previous attempts in other places. I know my own weaknesses, and over-emotionality on internet controversial discussions is unfortunately one of them. If you're curious about my thoughts, I'll explain, but I don't want to try to defend my opinions. If that makes me a coward to some, so be it.**

 

Baiting me, weren't you.

 

If it would get you into the discussion then ... sure why not?

I'd rather see an intelligent argument on any issue than the drivel I often find in the news.

 

Given Chev's intelligence, we've finally gotten proof that he is an atheist =))

And "welcome back", champ.