London Rioting

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You still do not see my point, if as so many of you claim here the people rioting are just viscous evil opportunistic bastards isn't it a sign that something is seriously wrong if there are so many of them?

 

I kind of wonder about that though ... when we have riots in the US to celebrate sports championships and the like, they're largely comprised of seemingly 'normal' people who enjoy sporting events. I'm sure hooligans and thugs are fueling things from the center, but they can't account for everybody. Ther's a join-in impulse at play that for some reason people respond to when things start to go haywire. I'd imagine there's a lot of that going on in London now too. Or are the chavs really that formidable and unified in vision, purpose, and opportunity?

Even if there was some reason that justified the rioting behavior on the part of the chavs (which I don't yet buy), the same wouldn't apply to the joiners, I don't think. e.g., the oppressed chavs riot to make a political statement (!) or to ... unconsciously manifest their discontent? Or something. But the unoppressed joiners who fill out the ranks - what's their excuse?

 

Particularly dumb teens that don't know any better, or mentally unstable people who have gotten so angry by something else that they don't care why they are doing it or what the consequences would be, most likely. You don't need them to make a big percentage of the population, really, just to get out at the same time.

Still, this feels almost surreal. That there would be a few hotheads, radicals or thugs in a mass protests to wreak havoc or pick up fights with the police I can accept, but it seems like here the majority of the rioters are like that.

One more thing, by the way - I can't help but remember what a friend of mine posted over on Facebook - "and in a few days, the media will be back to saying how Romanians and Bulgarians wreck that beautiful country."

 

I prefer this one, from some Egyptian rights activist.
"Egyptians and Tunisians took revenge for Khaled Said and [Mohammed] Bouazizi by peacefully toppling their murdering regimes, not stealing DVD players."

 

There's a few hundred, which out of a population of 60 million isn't that big a percentage. We do have a problem with gang and yob culture over here, but that's always been there. This has just given them somewhere to unite. They're nothing more than opportunistic thieves.

 

Can't they just send in the army? A couple of tanks? If you're firebombing stuff, you don't really have an argument as to why you shouldn't have it right back at you. I bet it'd soon stop after that.

 

First rule of a democratic society, you never ever ever ever use the military against your own population.

 

I'll have to agree with joa here. The army isn't meant to control riots, it's meant to fight other armies. It's like pruning your garden with a drill.

Sending the army is a very serious issue, and is only done in extreme emergencies where the state itself is in danger. This isn't the case, really. Even apart from the perspective of anyone caught in the riots - and not all went out to loot and pillage - this kind of thing has its effects on soldiers, onlookers, and everyone else. Do you want soldiers killing 16-year olds, then having to live with it? That kind of thing leaves a mark. Not to mention how it will look when you are trying to recruit people for the army.

I doubt they've even fully mobilized the police there - they probably have some more tricks up their sleeve.

 

This is soon to be followed by Libya recognising the London rioters as the legitimate government of the UK .

 

How to describe a chav... hmm.

A chav is the label give to a young person who abuses freedom, most probably due to a lack of life experience and wisdom. This is not a political problem it is a social problem.
Youths today have more freedom then they have ever ever had, they have money flowing freely so they can go wher they want and do what they want and care of technology they easily escape from family life into a world where only their friends are their influence. Think back to your childhood, lets go back 10 - 15 years and further.. we didnt have mobile phones, and the internet was a slow luxuary, when we came home we were only in the presence of our families, not in constant contact with our friends. If we went out we were in by a set time, we wouldnt dare break the law, back then our local bobby would give us a clip around the ear and then drag us home where our father would thank him and give us another clip.... today, if an officer drags a kid home to his parents the officer has committed a grave terrible act, if a teacher disciplines a kid in class, its just as evil.
I walk through a subway on a regular basis, empty vodka bottles and used condoms are a regular sight and the disrespectful stink of p!$$ is always present.
The problem and blame rests with everyone, we turn our head instead of helping people in need, in fear of legal reprisal, we walk past criminal acts and keep our heads low so not to gain any attention.

The kids rule the streets, and they are bad leaders.

 

So basically what you are saying is: "What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?." attributed to Socrates but the origin is vague what is known is that it is very very old and that if you could find an older caveman he would complain about kids of today.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble but people were sayin pretty much exactly the same thing 10 years ago. It's very funny to hear people talk about 10 years ago as if it was some kind of ancient history. I say the same thing about what it was like to be a kid 30 years ago, and my Dad says the same thing about what it was like to be a kid 60 years ago. Everybody seems to think that the era they were a kid in was some sort of golden era.

 

never mind the bollocks...

Todays kids are the product of today's times. Socially they're all imbalanced.
And their head is full of craps sponsored by mass-media and Co.
With no purpose, all the energies are spent on profane things. Sex, drugs and self indulgence.

I don't know how many of you have kids in their teens, but those who have can tell you that little kids always try something stupid to test their boundaries.

And if they can get away with it, they simply will do it again, unless the parents set them straight.
When they get older it's the same. But this time they have the TV-Net-World around them, and they can see what other people can get away with, be it socially, politically, morally or criminally.

On top of that most of them got to see the system reward their hard-working parents (if applicable) with the boot in their bum.

While said system has people who play poker with all their futures.
With nothing to lose and nothing to win, it's easy to shut off the cranial box, and set something on fire.

I think we will never really know who's to blame, or be able to pin-point he origins of this world-wide problem.

 

An unfixed crack becomes a hole.

 

So long as people focus on the real fixable cracks, and not on the geological fault line between generations that has been there for thousands of years.

 

other brits want to wade in here?

 

No, I'm good thanks.

One thing I will say is that chavs aren't just the young people of today. There are enough of the older generations that really should know better that are also in the same vein.

It's not the youth of today, hell I'm 22, I'm still a child in most peoples' eyes.

When the adult generations learn how to take the government and others for a ride though, they don't necessarily develop responsibility in bedroom and parenting activities. There is a substantial youth pattern to the behaviour, but it hasn't sprung up suddenly.

 

Another thing that is quite funny is how extremely similar not to say identical the description is of these "chavs" to how the Tunisian, Egyptian, Libyan and now Syrian government are describing their protesters.

 

"There is a substantial youth pattern to the behaviour, but it hasn't sprung up suddenly"

In fact, do we know for a provable fact it has grown recently? There's always a lot of whining and moaning how the younger generations are morally bankrupt, lazy, worthless etc, but it seems almost no one ever actually gives figures.

Now, the riots have to be stopped, by all means. However there's a point to be made that I think joacqin has pointed to: these people didn't just decide to go off and start wreaking havoc out of the blue. In a neighborhood where youth unemployment is 20-30% or higher, wages for those who earn them are low, and (perceived) prospects are lower, it doesn't take much for anger to start building up and anti-X (rich, immigrants, or other unpopular group) sentiments to start getting steam. What is the overall unemployment in the UK now, 8-9%? Chances are it's not uniform across the country, and there are places where it's much higher than that. When a lot of people perceive the system as inherently slanted against them and the odds as unbeatable, alternative paths of behavior - even those normally described as immoral or illegal - start becoming popular. Right now, many people everywhere have a problem getting a job. The mentality that all it takes is being willing to work and you're golden might have reflected the situation 5 years ago, but right now it's not true for many, many people.

It's not all "dumb, lazy people acting up"; more than likely there are some actual social and economic issues underneath all that rage and destructiveness. Well-off people with plenty of (perceived) opportunities seldom go out and protest, much less riot.