No Kids Allowed!

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We are quite off-topic here but I will say and it is something that LKD points out as well that there are vastly superior ways to discipline a child than to hit it. As soon you as you hit you have already failed.

As for the topic, good riddance. I can see many many many problems and objections but personally and thankfully it hasn't happened to me that many times but having a screaming child beside me in a restaurant is no fun. I would also like to shoot the people putting speakers and music players in mobile phones in the knee caps. Worst idea ever.

 

Hitting a child has little to do with "loving discipline." There is a whole lot to be said for discipline, but children tend to follow their parents' lead. They mostly learn by example. That's not everything in parenting, but it's a good piece of it. The important thing about managing them is that children are individuals and each should be given a different approach, depending on their specific needs and how they respond. What works with one child may not work on a different one.

I'm shocked by some of the remarks I see here, which seem narrow and one dimensional. There seems to be little flexibility in some thoughts on this issue.

 

Most of us in our 30s or older were spanked by our parents when we were affecting others with our misbehaviour. It was common and we even were spanked by Principals at our schools. I don't know a single person that came out unhinged or deranged from it. I do know people that came out pretty messed up after a childhood of being abused by abusive parents/adults. Parents/adults who used what I would equate to more than spanking and in bad ways. Like hitting for no reason, enjoying hitting the child and watching them cry, beg, squirm or what have you. There is a major difference there. The difference is the intent of the parent.

 

It's like anything else - It's not that it does permanent damage, but that it causes more pain for a child than is necessary. As a parent, I wish to create a healthy, caring realtionship with my children and a loving environment. I spend a lot of my time providing a safe, happy place for my children to thrive in. Punishment should be meaningful, but with as little damage to my little ones as possible. I approach my three children in different ways, because they are three different people.

 

Tal - All that is nothing more than a false choice. The question is not if punishment should be applied, but what kind of punishment it should be. People have tried other forms of punishment and had success without spanking. Really.

 

IMO The spanking issue is one that will never be resolved to everyone's satisfaction. Personally I think spanking in certain circumstances can be a helpful learning tool. It depends on a few factors, 1. anger vs. calm, 2. the age and mental development of the child, Spanking out of anger (especially when yelling/cursing is involved) would probably scare and traumatize the child and do more harm than good. While spanking your child and not acting angry/yelling would show more disapointment in the action in question. Which brings me to point 2, Spanking a child before they can understand the reasons behind the pain is quite frankly... abuse. Spanking a child before they develop the mental acuity to understand the ramifications of their actions serves no purpose other than satisfying the parents anger and instilling a pavlovian fear response to certain things. Once a child is mentally developed enough to understand what he/she has done i think the guilt instilled be the disapointment in a calm spanking would do more good than the spanking in the first place.

 

Anyone who believes a controlled swat on the butt of a young child with an open hand is abuse is simply clueless. It may not be the best way to deal with an issue but it is not abuse.

 

I agree with the tenor of the post, that a controlled swat is certainly not abuse. But people who believe that spanking is a cure-all are just as clueless.

I have raised two girls without spanking, and they are doing just fine, both at home and at school. So no one can tell me that spanking is necessary. As for my young son, I hate to post this on this forum, and in this manner, but he is a "special needs" child. Maybe I will build a blog about what this means, personally, to me and my family. But at the moment I don't want to go into any details. I'm really not ready to write about it on an open forum.

 

Spot on Chandos -- both sides of the spectrum are clueless. I must admit, those parents I've known who believed in "spare the rod, spoil the child" and spanked often rarely used restraint. There is a point (and age) when spanking crosses over from a form of discipline to abuse.

 

The problem is determining when the "swat" is controlled and when it's not and usually if you ask the parent it's always controlled when they do it. There's also difference when you use it. According to Finnish law spanking is child abuse and thus I feel myself justified to call it as such. I won't stop calling spousal rape as rape simply because it's not illegal everywhere.

I'll admit though that I have no children and know nothing about parenting so who am I to say what's necessary, but then I was never spanked and seem to have turned out quite well. I'm sure some parents spank their children (some even prefer to hit them right in the face) since domestic violence is one of the most difficult crimes to deal with.

 

I spank my boys, and for me the phrase "this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you" is really true. I hate spanking my boys, but I do it when I they really mess up. It's the ultimate in my hierarchy of punishments.

What might earn a spanking? Open defiance or disrespect of a parent (usually my wife, as my boys don't seem to do this with me) or other authority figure. This is a behavior that I will not tolerate, and I need my children to understand that under no circumstances is it acceptable to call their mother a name, or otherwise defy her authority. I have also spanked my 4 year old for attacking his older brother, leaving claw marks on his back.

When I spank, I make it clear that the punishment is coming (usually I warn beforehand that if a certain behavior isn't changed, that a spanking will be the punishment). Before I give the spanking I tell my boys how many to expect (usually 3), and if they fight me they will get an extra one. So the spankings don't just come out of nowhere and surprise my kids. They know why they are being spanked, and I always do so in a controlled manner (i.e. I don't just let my own anger prompt me into beating them).

After the spanking, once my kids have calmed down a bit, I will have a heart to heart talk with them, reminding them why I spanked them, how they can avoid it in the future, and a hug and I love you are almost always part of that "wrap up" conversation. Hugs and affection are big in our family.

For me, I would classify this as loving discipline, and it is only reserved for those times that a timeout or taking away privileges just won't have the appropriate impact.

I don't believe I'm doing anything wrong, on the contrary, in fact. I do this because I take my duty as a father so seriously. Consequently, my wife and I have been stopped by parents many times at restaurants and the like and complemented on how well-behaved our children are. My parenting methods may not agree with everyone, but when I get comments like that, I figure I must be doing something right. My boys are well-adjusted, and they see me as their hero, not as an abusive tyrant. Sometimes love needs to be a little tough.

It's what works in my home, and so I'm sticking with the approach.

Sorry if this isn't exactly on topic.

 

When i was a kid and I acted up, my parents weren't afraid to give me a good smack.

Never did me any harm, almost certainly shaped me for the better.

 

I am quite shocked, all I can say is that people should look into the research on the subject. It is pretty one sided. I think what worries me the most is the cavalier scorn found in posts like the one T2 made, that using physical force to discipline a child is some kind of obvious law of nature and to question it is questioning whether water is wet.

 

Dunno, I've heard of several cases of people who definitely weren't shaped for the better ... friends of friends, basically. I guess it depends on how elastic the parent's definition of "acting up" is.

I've taken a few smacks as a kid, maybe 5 or 10 altogether. I'm not sure if they made that big of a difference.

 

I agree, it is very one sided, but that side is wrong.

We have thousands of years of experience that spanking is an effective means of discipline and child rearing.

My experiences with Teen Snook are all the evidence that I will ever need to know that the "social scientists" are full of ****. When he was younger and did something he shouldn't have he either got spanked on the butt or on the hand. Whenever it happened it hurt and stunned him. He would cry both out of pain and being upset. However, he wouldn't do the offending action anymore.

People who think you can have a rationale discussion with a three year old about running into the street are insane.

He is now 15 years old. He probably hasn't been spanked in eight plus years. As one of his teachers commented "he is a fine young citizen". His friend's parents always comment on how much of a pleasure it is to have him over and frequently will invite him on family vacations.

In my opinon people who can't tell the difference between spanking and child abuse are naive at best. When I say this, I mean this form both sides. The side of the parent and the side of the critic.

 

I am equally shocked by the cavalier scorn in your initial post. I usually find such comments coming from individuals who have never been truly abused and have no first hand experience in the issue -- although many who received a light spanking as a child seem to believe they have been abused and understand the issues children who have nearly been killed by their parents go through. What a load of BS.

 

I take my girls in public all the time, and there is no problem with it. Taking them outside to the parking lot and having a talk with them about the consquences works wonders, at least with my girls.

We also take my son, but that's another matter. Despite being "special needs" he still has the right to be in public with his family. It takes two of us to manage him. One of us has to take him outside, while that other stays with the girls. If he offends the smug, self-righteous, who automatically assume he is a "brat" or the result of "bad parenting," I really don't give a flip about what the ignorant believe. We are past that.

 

Yes, anecdotal evidence is way more reliable than research...