Wisconsin Gov. Walker Threatens To Deploy National Guard Against Unions

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I see you've noticed where I've been going to and from the last few days.

One of the things that I've seen which is very interesting is that some of the media has not been talking what this is about. Last Wednesday a channel tried to avoided having any of their anchors use the words "rights" or "negotiation" and it seemed like the issue was portrayed as being over pay or benefits.

I wouldn't be there if it was over pay or benefit cuts and neither would be most of the other people.

This "budget repair" bill that the governor called "modest" monday would strip away a multitude of collective negotiation rights.

Unions can negotiate over direct pay-but that is hampered because of restrictions and potentially extreme statewide referendum rules. Negotiation over anything else is outright banned. Benefits? No. Workplace conditions? No.

This is a subtle attempt to bust the ability for unions to negotiate ever again and some local media tried to portray it as a simple fight over compensation.

And from what I've heard the local right wing radio is in full blown propaganda mode.

Tomorrow I've heard Sara Palin is going to show up to lead a Tea Party rally.

I've also heard union members are coming from other states. I was in the capital building today and will be back there tomorrow (though probably outside).

Right now part of the hope is to convince a few republican state senators to not remove rights people have had longer than our current governor has walked this Earth.

I have yet to write my democratic state senators a thank you letter/email but I will.

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Oh and to be clear, the threat that was portrayed to us is that the national guard would be used to replace people if they went on strike-not that a national guardsman has much experience teaching some high school classes.

An interesting thing I have been noticing and wondering about is how large is the pool of law enforcement.

I do not think the local city police are against the protestors-they are friendly when off duty (I'm saying they are good & great people not that they are avoiding doing their jobs if anyone wants to criticize them or call them slackers or something-they haven't earned it either personally or professionally). I've noticed state police, Department of Natural Resources Wardens, and sheriff's deputies from counties outside the one the capital is in all rotating through points in the capital building but thus far things are quite calm and I don't expect violence-most have been letting me take their picture.

The only worry that has been made of violence is with all the people coming tomorrow-especially the teaparty folks have some of people are worried about instigators.

Someone who will start a fight and then attempt to blame it on the union members and protestors.

But things are pretty peaceful-a number of union members have brought their families.

A few people get emotional-but there is a decent amount of emotion there.

I'm just proud of all the people there and I hope they keep coming back/staying there.

 

Those of us who still value the freedom and rights of workers in this country thank you for standing up for those rights [and to the tea party bullies] pplr.

 

Does anyone else find it ridiculous that the Democratic senators have actually fled the state in an effort to deny the Republican senators a quorum to vote on the bill? I mean, they have actually crossed state lines, stayed away from homes and family, etc. Why? Could they be legally compelled to attend and vote if they were in the state? If so, is what they're doing illegal now (i.e. they have fled the jurisdiction to avoid legal consequences)? If not, isn't it just stupid grandstanding? If they're absent for too long (not doing their jobs), can they be dismissed? Regardless of all that, how good will this look to the Wisconsin voters?

All in all, it seems like a stupid and risky move to me.

 

No problem.

I think being there is the right thing to do.

Like I said, I'm proud of these people and those I'll be seeing again tomorrow are great people to be with.

Part of the reason I plan to be on the outside is because that is where I suspect the Tea Party folks will be and I want to be able to step between any of them and someone they may attempt to start something with-my hope would be to defuse the situation and actually talk to those tea party folks as hopefully communicate why we are there.

If they support liberty they shouldn't be for taking peoples rights away or organizations that are democratically elected.

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I cheer (from a distance) the Democratic state senators who did that.

The Democratic State Senators had to do that. I believe they could be compelled to show up and vote. Specifically I believe the governor ordered the state troopers to find them because I believe I saw a couple of state troopers searching for them. But beyond the state line state troopers don't have the authority to. If one of the Democratic state Senators needs to go someplace new I'll be happy to contribute to and pass around a collection hat for the money to buy the ticket.


We just had an election last year and not once in any debate or ad did what the current governor say what he was going to try.

The man has been a liar and continues to be a boldfaced one.


He lied his way into office and is trying to mislead people about what he is doing now.


The Democratic Senators did the right thing in my opinion.

 

I make no claims as to the accuracy of this, but it does appear to be some sort of government hearing. If this is the case and individual teachers make that much more than the average citizen (for about 2/3 the amount of work), I can see why Wisconsin voted in a record number or Republicans and a Republican Governor.

This is starting to look ugly as the unions and Democrats are starting to bring in outside agitators as they have an entire way of life they are trying to protect. Although, all of these outsiders are probably good for the hospitality and tourism industry.

 

I doubt teachers make that much, at least not in this state [TX probably ranks about average]. But I'm really surprised that you of all people have the utter gall to use that argument, Mr. defender of CEOs and other corporate managers paying themselves hundreds of times more than the average worker makes. You seemed to be perfectly fine with those fools making an income and benefits which went way off the charts, but if teachers make a little more you whine about it. Yeah, and their meager little 3 percent tax hike? OMG for the richest people in the US? Now the same people are complaining that teachers - working class people - are unhappy with having to pay the same benefits as everyone else. I'm one of those people who pays 30 percent of my insurance benefits. And you know what? It sucks. I don't blame teachers for fighting back. I fought back by supporting health care reform, as meager as that was.

BTW, taking wages an benefits away from someone else to pay someone else? That's "redistribution of wealth," dude. Have at it, Mr. Marx.

Here you can see how poorly we take care of our teachers. No wonder they have a union.

http://teacherportal.com/teacher-salaries-by-state

Wisconsin:

Wow. That's a "get rich" scheme if I ever saw one.

 

If it was the only way to block the vote, how is it risky or stupid? They took as what they perceived was their only option. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

Please tell me that you recognize the difference between a teacher and a CEO/Business owner. My sister is a third grade teacher and she will be one of the first to tell you that many teachers (not all) are not a part of the "best and brightest". While an admirable profession, they don't have the pressures and drive that other professions require.

To quote Dan Ackroyd's character from Ghostbusters

A CEO/ Business owner is an entirely different breed of animal. While I will agree with you that Fortune 500 pay is ridiculous, in many cases the company is generating the profits to pay the salary and it is being approved by the shareholders and board of directors. If they underperform they are canned and someone else does the job. Can you say the same about teachers?

My experience is more with small business owners. God Bless them all, they should be entitled to pay themselves whatever they want and whatever they can. If the owner makes a 100 times more than the guy who cleans the toilet I say good for him. The owner took all of the risk and should get all of the rewards.

Not to pick on teachers, as this is true of all government workers, they are paid by the taxpayers. They work for us, although the unions seem to think it is the other way around and we need to work to pay taxes so they can get paid.

This is what the Wisconsin fight will be about. If they prevail and manage to keep the government under control this fight will spread like wildfire to all of the other "near bankrupt" states and then hopefully we can do it to the federal government. I don't remember where I read it but since when do you need a college degree and a room full of computers to teach a five year old to read??

By bringing the CEOs into the discussion you are attempting to divert the discussion about what needs to be done to save Wisconsin and instead trying to make this a "class struggle". What next will someone bring up cries of racism and homophobia?

To put this into terms of a corporation or an individual there is a finite amount of money. You cannot spend more than that amount of money. If you have contracts to spend more than that amount you would either have to renegotiate those contracts or file for bankruptcy. In either situation the contract will not be honored. Wisconsin is in the same situation as many other states. They cannot raise taxes so they have to cut spending. The sooner the public service unions realize that the days of free flowing money are over the better off they will be. I'm assuming you are old enough to remember Reagan and the air traffic controllers. Many of them never recovered.

 

I think it is ironic that the first ones to complain about teacher competency, are the first ones to want to cut pay and benefits. Nothing like offering next to nothing for something, is there? Maybe they should hire high-school dropouts to teach their kids. I bet they can get them plenty cheap. Education on the cheap? It's only the future of the country that is at stake.

Yes. Most teachers are honest, hard working people who deserve more, not less; CEOS are mostly leeches and theives, most of whom should be in the state pen.

I would not insult any breed of animal by comparing it to those vampires.

Really? Is that why so many of them are paid millions JUST TO LEAVE????

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/bp-ceo-may-be-trying-to-get-fired-really-2010-06-22

 

One thing I'd like to add. If someone wants to pay additional taxes they are more than welcome to make a charitable contribution to any government agency they want to. I'm sure if a lot of people in Wisconsin would make voluntary contributions they could balance the budget.

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I think if you look at the evidence you will find that throwing money at education has never worked. The Catholic schools which spend far less per pupil then anywhere seem to always outperform the public schools.

 

BTA - I completely feel your pain. I have three children. The problem is that teaching is not that great. How can you attract the best people to teach when the pay is low and the politicains can't leave them alone? Why do you think most people want to go into business rather than teach? Because business pays less and the conditions are worse? No, it's quite the opposite.

The unions are a buffer between the politicians and the teachers. And it's a shame the system is so broken. Snook brought up Catholic schools, where politicians and unions have little to say about how they are run, and surprise, they are better. If we could leave teaching to the schools and teachers, and got the politicians and unions out of it, it would be much better, not only in terms of expense, but the quality of teaching would be better as well. But as long as the politicians have a hand in it, the unions are needed to protect the workers.

 

Well, there is too much politics in our school systems. And teacher pay and benefits should be based upon merit. But can anyone imagine a starting pay of 25K in 2011 for a worker who is required to have a 4-year college degree? What a joke.

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They will be back soon. Texas Democrats did the same thing a few years back, when Tom DeLay tried to illegally use homeland security to bring them back. They know they can't stop it from passing. The idea is to slow it down, so that it can get national attention and give it a chance for people to think about what they are getting. Anything that can be passed now can be undone by later legislation. The only thing is that it is harder to get back freedom once it is lost.

 

It is possible, but I'd also like to see just what the differences are, and what students each recruit from.

Also, don't catholic schools get the students whose parents make an effort to put them there? Public schools afaik tend to be left with most of the kids who wouldn't go anywhere else - they are the "safety nets" for underachieving kids (or those of such parents). These students may drive grade averages down, but it is important that they get some education.

 

Yes, cutting salaries and benefits for teachers will really make them "better". It is the massive salaries and benefits they have now that have lured the "best and brightest" to the schools. One of the major problems with I would wager all western school systems is the hollowing out of the teacher role with lower and lower pay, attracting poorer and poorer students. You get what you pay for, if you want only ultradriven, super intelligent people as teachers then you have to pay a lot more than you do now. With current salaries you mostly at least get moderately intelligent people who who enjoys spending time with people but maybe do not see money as the only value in life. Lower the wages and you will get barely literate people pressing play for your children in a moldy basement somewhere.

Once when they decided what to pay the members of parliment in Sweden they looked at what a teacher made and then gave them that as it was a respectable sum for a respectable job. It is not like that anymore.

I can live with annoying, diagnosed, shellshocked, uncouth kids with little to no interest in getting and education. If there ever is anything that will make me quit teaching it is this hounding of teachers going on everywhere. Did everyone have crap teachers? Do everyone have so little respect for the people actually trying to help your kids? What is up with this resentment against teachers? Nowadays teachers are expected to perform miracles with crap raw materials, few incentives (except for the desire to actually see some kids make something of themselves) and absolutely no appreciation. The only thing you are achieving is scaring off the good teachers, those who can actually get a job elsewhere and be stuck with the bad teachers I guess you were out to get in the first place.

 

Republicans attack unions to hurt Democrats: analysts

 

Oh, yes. I completely understand. A good friend of mine is from Cali and he has three kids also and he left Cali because the schools are so horrible. He came here to Texas and he is much happier, even though it is still not really that great. I can illustrate:

One of the stores I worked in was in a pretty bad district, and in fact is known to pay quite a bit higher because teachers have to fear for their safety. It is called "combat pay." Usually it is their cars that get busted up by students though.

I had a customer, a lady from Germany, who was teaching German in that district. After a year she quit because she got tired of being threatened by students who expected her to pass them, despite their lack of effort. She could get no help from anyone in the administration, nor from the parents, and finally she called it quits. She said, "I'm going back to Germany, this is insanity. How can you people live like this?" As I said, I only worked in that area. You couldn't pay me to live there, let alone send my kids to school there. But it illustrates just what some teachers are up against. It's not always the fault of the union.