Baldur's Gate 2 - Best RPG Ever

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Baldur's Gate 2 - Best RPG Ever...so says GameInformer in a new article where they use "science" and compare BioWare's epic against Oblivion, Mass Effect and Final Fantasy X to prove the point. On BG2 vs Oblivion:

It says something terrible that no matter how poorly Advanced Dungeons & Dragons was balanced (and the ruleset used in BG2 is hilariously imbalanced, with the inclusion of silly rules like monks and class kits), it pales in comparison to the mess that is Oblivion's system. In BG2 you have the freedom to create massively awesome parties by including whatever mix of the brilliantly written NPCs you wanted. Some combinations are better than others, and certain main character builds are borderline ridiculous (oh hi there, dual-class fighter-mage katana grandmaster!), but it's nigh impossible to gimp your group into unplayability if you pay any attention at all.

Meanwhile, in Oblivion, several advancement paths effectively send you backwards. Not leveling any Endurance-related skills? Have fun with the durability of a newborn kitten wrapped in wet paper towels! Picked Mercantile or Speechcraft as a major? Try not to talk to anyone, because while you get marginally better at a sub-game that nobody cares about, the monsters are out there pumping iron and finding better equipment to eviscerate you with. On the flip side, Oblivion is stupidly easy to break to the point where you're de facto invincible. Try stupid crap like that against a BG2 lich and see how far it gets you.​

 

Try using a scroll of protection from undeath. Then it just stands there, while it burns...

 

Whilst this is a good article (heck, I'm not going to argue with BG2's quality), I have to take umbrage with the games the author is comparing BG2 to. None of them, except perhaps Mass Effect are really "Best RPG Ever" contenders. Oblivion has been roundly criticised for its myriad flaws so many times that I don't feel the need to repeat them again, and Final Fantasy X is, well... Final Fantasy. Square Enix have been decreasing the actual gameplay content of the FF series since VII; in a couple of games' time there'll be nothing left apart from a slew of animated cutscenes and (so help me Bhaal) a few quick-time events. This is a bit like saying that Mohammed Ali was the greatest because he could've beaten Audley Harrison and Samuel Peters!

 

You wouldn't ever have to claim Ali was the greatest Magpie, he did that for himself every interview....

On topic, since they are using the words EVER in the coronation title, I agree, Oblivion is not one of them, nor is FFX. On terms of non D&D games, the best I ever played was Ultima: Quest of the Avatar. Including other D&D games, Planscape:Torment jumps right to mind, great game! But BG2 takes the cake. Tob just makes it even more special It has everything I feel a great game should have. Replayability, decent graphics(great graphics is not needed IMO and can be overbearing or just plain annoying to my old-school ass...), a storyline that keeps me wanting more and party-based adventure(which is what I prefer in my CRPGS). BG1 was also a great game, but not on par with BG2. BG2 just enhanced the BG1 experience, hence the rise of Tutu and BGT.

 

I happen to agree that Baldur's Gate 2 is the best COMPUTER RPG ever, but you can't prove such a claim by choosing 3 random games to compare it against, and then saying: therefore, it's the best RPG ever. There's A LOT more games out there, and as has already been mentioned, several that are much more worthy contenders for the title.

You have to prove such a thing based on some defined criteria, and then providing statistics that are representative of the market. At least, that's a much more "scientific" approach than what's been taken here. All that the author of this article was arguably able to prove, is that BG2 is the best RPG out of this particular group of four.

But again, I don't argue with GameInformer's premise. Just their methods.

 

BG2 isn't the best RPG ever. For one, BG1 ranks above it.

...I get the feeling i'm going to need a decent AC after posting this.

 

WHAAAAAT did the heretic just say????

There are plenty of folks who prefer the original, and we're talking about a subjective matter, so that's fine. And after all, it paved the way for the sequel, so its contribution should not be overlooked.

In my view, BG2 takes everything that's great about the original, and pushes it a step or two further. I think BG2 is commonly viewed more favorably because of it's truly epic scope, and greater number of options. As I recall, it sold better than the original, so from that perspective it was "better". If we did a poll (not a bad idea actually) I'm pretty certain BG2 would be the clear winner.

Beyond that, it sort of comes down to personal opinion. I love the original and have played through it at least 5 times over the years (I REALLY have to love a game to play it that much). I'd say I've played BG2 more than a dozen times over the years, to give some perspective on the greater impact it had on me personally.

 

I was about to post something along the lines of "bg2 is good..." then i read this last post. And its almost like I changed my mind now

Anyway, here you can read snippet from my intended post, for your consideration.

 

No, but you might want to quaff a Potion of Fire Resistance, as well as have a friendly cleric cast resist fire on you. Wearing a Ring of Fire Resistance, a mage robe of the same would be a good idea.


Seriously, since they say "best RPG of all time", I feel such notable games as Wizardry, Bard's Tale, Ultima and Dungeon Master should be included in the review. Wizardry has its flaws, but has the distinction of starting the genre.
I feel Dungeon Master is one of the best RPGs of all time, and certainly the best of the late 1980s, far better than the Eye of the Beholder games that copied it.

Maybe I'm just showing my age as kids these days probably have no idea what I'm talking about.

 

Yup, that's fair enough. For me, the party interactions in BG2 weren't as game-making, and the lack of exploration did lose you something. Getting mugged by quests every map also got old a bit quickly, and the story of BG2 didn't have as much impact on me as 1.

Spoiler

Certainly, the return to Candlekeep section had more gravitas than any twist in BG2; the dopplegangers were genuinely unsettling in sowing doubt about what you had seen and experienced in your protaganist's life so far.

BG2 has an awful lot of quality, but the higher in levels you get, the more unbalanced the AD&D rules get. BG2 does its level best to keep a lid on things, but it's always an uphill struggle for the game designers. In ToB, of course, they just gave up and turned everything up to 11 with HLAs, etc. The original is, perhaps, lucky in that it never takes its protaganist above level 8-10. I love BG2, it is undoubtedly great. Its customisability is also a massive plus. But, one of the games you have to judge it against to call it the "Best RPG Ever" is its own predecessor, and the choice between the two basically comes down to personal preference.

To continue the theme of games to be judged as potential "Best RPGs ever" against BG2, I'll throw in Morrowind, Fallout, Ultima VII - The Serpent Isle and Jade Empire.

EDIT: How the **** did I forget PS:T? It's even my avatar!

 

I just remembered something when talking about games to put on an old laptop that I'm installing Linux on. We made a joke about something "old enough to work on it" that I feel deserves mention as one of the "best RPGs EVER".

What about Rogue?
Without that there would have been no Diablo or any other "Rogue-like games". It was still a fun game to play on Unix in the 1990s, as was Moria and Omega, in spite of their age.
I personally liked Moria or Omega better, but they are even more clearly direct descendants of Rogue than Diablo (then again, they are copycats from either the same generation or the very next generation, as opposed to a distant descendant like Diablo).

I'm split between putting Moria, Omega, or Rouge itself as "Best Rogue-like game ever", though I'm tempted to go with Rogue even though I think the previous 2 are better simply because Rogue was the first, the other two were copycats.

 

I perfer alot of games which came before;

Chrono Trigger, Tales of Phantasia, Terranigma, Secret of Evermore and Earthbound to name a few

 

i've tried to get into this game many times since it came out, but each time to no avail.... its so goddam boring

but i agree that BG2 (+TOB) is the best crpg ever, although BG1 feels more "realistic" to me.....