Quiz! What do you really know about the occupation in Palestine?

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hmm, youve just described the USA and the UK

 

I don't know about the UK, but he sure as **** didn't describe the US. There was a time when our nation stole Native Lands in bits in chunks, pushing the natives farther and farther back without recourse and without cause. We called it "Manifest Destiny" and we abandoned it a long time ago. What little land the Natives have left, we allow them to keep. We do not settle it against their will, nor do we inhibit the free passage of Native Americans throughout our nation or tell them where they can and cannot live. Americans living in territories like Guam or Puerto Rico are likewise equal citizens. They are free to live anywhere they wish without limitations. They needn't stay in their own territory, and we don't take their land against their will, either.

 

We aren't talking about the USA or UK. Please stop trying to divert attention from Israel's continual human rights abuses.

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Why do you rise to the bait? If he gives a **** about the Native Indians, he can start a separate thread about it.

 

No I dont give a **** about the Native Americans, what Im pointing out is that every modern democracy was built on the humiliation, slavery and exploitation of other cultures.

but you didnt give the rest of their land back to them? so that land continues to be annexed

you want to complain about human rights abuse being committed against Islams? the most repressive people on the planet?

Of all the countries in the Middle east Israel hardly dents the list of the worse human rights offenders - the worst offenders all being Muslim states, nations like Syria and Saudi Arabia have been known for their very repressive regimes that have no consideration to human rights, There are some issues prevalent in most Middle Eastern countries, often due to their common Islamic background. 3 of the US State Department's Worst Human Rights Offenders are in the Middle East and North Africa: Iran, Syria, and Sudan.

In comparison to being jailed for holding hands in public or kissing your partner, Israel's control over land is quite tame.

 

FYI: Not all Palestinians are Muslim. There are Christian Arabs living in Israel. They also make up about 9% of the Palestinians in the West bank and to a lesser extent in Gaza. As Christians they don't call for or apply Sharia law, which is what you're referring to.

Muslim, Christian - all the same to you?

 

OK, thanks for the admission. Now, can we please stay on topic? We are not discussing the USA or UK. Nor are we discussing the human rights issues in Arab countries. We are discussing Israel.

 

hmm? Im talking about the countries in the area? their blatant violations of human rights, yet no one cares?

I am aware of that, Im talking about the majority, there are muslims who live in the UK too, not the majority, but they still live with the same rules and laws as we do - rules apply to everyone, not a select few.

maybe if you understood this planet, you would know that we are a global community, we are also all human, the behaviours of others help us to understand our own actions. Countries like the UK were built in exactly the same way as Israel today, a dominant force exerts its will on a weaker culture, for example, use the Welsh and the English, the welsh fought for a good long time before finally being beaten, and today we live in 'harmony' but still with a democratically elected government and equal laws which apply to both countries, in 200 years, Israel... may be in harmony with their elected government supported by both Israel, Gaza and the West bank... if anything, history supports this theory.

Mordea, Im struggling to debate with you in this thread, you havent said anything other then hate comments, do you have anything productive to add or is this simply a rant for you?

 

I understand this planet. I also understand deflection.

Of course you are. I'm not playing by your rules. I'm not allowing myself to be led off on a tangent that has no bearing whatsoever on the Israelis current atrocities.

Haha, whatever dude. Keep spewing the rhetoric, I could care less either way.

 

once again, another post, containing absolutely nothing to do with the debate.

no, Im struggling to debate against nothing, youve posted no facts, no 'atrocities', no human rights breaches - nothing.

obviously not, debating requires references to topics related to the debate, if you wanted to debate the Imperialism of the British Empire, it would be hard to discuss it without relating to the Imperialism of another country to draw similarities and differences.

for example, someone calls blonds stupid, and someone else comes along and says "brunettes have done stupid things too" and the original poster says "WERE TALKING ABOUT BLONDS STOP TRYING TO DIVERT ATTENTION FROM BLOND'S STUPIDITY RAAAGGGGG!!!!!!" without drawing comparison the debate lacks depth and character.

I have drawn refernce to the UK because it is a modern democracy which respects human rights, equality and has an elected government, 100 years ago it didnt, go back further then that and it was very repressive. Israel itself has very good human rights, the occupied territories do not, just like England and Wales, the English were treated better then the welsh, who were starved, murdered and had their culture destroyed. dont ***** and moan about Israel's occupied territories just because theyre a bit behind. In 100 years they may be akin to the UK as it is today.

 

That's a pretty accurate description of your posts.

The atrocities were already hinted at in the original post, and they are merely the tip of the iceberg. I could quite easily fill several sets of encyclopaedias with the ongoing human rights abuses by the Israelis. However, I feel no real compulsion to do so. Contributing to discussions such as this are very low on my list of priorities.

and not deflecting.

But you are not doing this. You are attempting to rationalise current bad behaviour by pointing out the past bad behaviour of others. That is dishonest, juvenile, and completely missing the point.

It is a diversion. If someone had claimed that blondes were stupider than individuals with other hair colours, then it would not be a diversionary tactic to point out that yes, there are some pretty stupid brunettes out there too.

And I disregard it because we are discussing Israel, not the UK. I never claimed that Israel is worse than the UK or USA in regards to history of human rights abuses, so for you to respond with such comparisons is a diversion at best.

I re-iterate. I will *not* be misled into defending, attacking, justifying, explaining or exploring the human rights abuses of other nations, as Drew has been. I don't have the time for such protracted debates that go nowhere.

 

so, If you not prepared to debate with us, what are you doing here? all youve done is mindlessly rant

 

Expressing my opinion. Is that allowed? Am I permitted to post my opinion and observations without being required to engage in two dozen pages of discussion?

 

Well, you at least have to willing to defend your opinion

 

this is a discussion forum, we discuss eachothers opinions

you havent discussed opinions, youve simply attacked those which do not agree with you, not for the validity of those arguments but simply because they disagree with you.

 

Why?

 

Are you now asking me to defend my opinion?

 

No. I'm asking why anyone should be required to 'defend' their opinion. If you consider this an attack against you or your opinion, then you should ease up a little.

I think that the very concept of 'defending' an opinion is a barrier to productive discussion.

 

Perhaps i should have used the word 'explained' since you seem to take the word 'defend' quite literally. Opinions are like *******s, everybody's got one. If you want people to accept yours you need to have good reasons for that opinion and state those reasons. If you don't want to give reasons for your opinion you are quite frankly wasting yours and our time.

 

Here's where you went wrong. Israel continues to annex additional land from neighboring territories and further treats the Palestinian natives as second class citizens. The US once committed the same sins. It no longer does, so your comparison really isn't valid anymore. It's just a deflection, and ignores the very real human rights issues that exist in Palestine now.

Islams? What's an Islam?

Anyway, you paint with too broad a brush. To call out Israel for its mistreatment of Palestinians does not require one to ignore human rights abuses found in many Islamic nations. You can do both. You can also be fair enough to recognize that many "Islamic" nations have secular governments and do not practice Sharia law, and you would do well not to discount the many repressive cultures found in the far east when making your tally of the most repressive people on the planet.

That out of the way, could you please help me understand how the myriad injustices found in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria or Sudan justify the Israeli treatment of Palestinians? My mommy always taught me that two wrongs don't make a right, so I must be missing something. Please enlighten me.

 

I havent said this, what I pointed out is that people complain about Israel, but not about other countries forcing ... say... women to have their clitoris removed, what Israel is doing isnt really that bad, people just want to make it look really bad, the real human rights offences are happening in the countries around it.

your not seeing where Im coming from, the US did these things for a good long time, Israel hasnt, theyve got plenty of time to put down all resistance just like the americans did and establish their democracy throughout the area crusing all of their enemies until there is no resistance and their rule can flourish, just like the USA.

The land which would later become USA, was settled around 1492, serious human rights offences happened pretty much immediately, youve got a good period of annexing land and treating natives like ****, Israel was founded in 1948, lets give them 400 years and see how well they put the area back together, I mean after all, 4000 years ago, it was their land to begin with.