DAO DLC: Darkspawn Chronicles

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Very good point. Maybe they could find some way to implement a DLC of this sort for Awakening, though. Something similar, but not as labor intensive as what Munchkin's idea would require, especially since the Darkspawn in this case are more intelligent and have the capabilities of speech (well some of them anyway).

 

I haven't played that DLC but it seems to me that they took the easy way with Chronicles. Recycling existing areas to stage some fights doesn't require that much effort or work. They didn't even bother to make new areas and original quests (killing everyone in Denerim is not that imaginative).

 

@Celtic

I agree that with the direction of Awakening there is a lot more potential for the Darkspawn. I could envision that in a future game, it could be possible to encounter a darkspawn who even fights for the cause of good, and even joins your party (basically a Drizzt Do'urden of the Dragon Age world).

I get the impression that Bioware wants to have the Darkspawn evolve from mindless creatures into their own complex race. This is smart if you want to keep Darkspawn at the forefront of your games, acting as more than meaningless rabble. Otherwise, for the Darkspawn to be of any real consequence there always needs to be a blight going on, and that's going to become real repetitive, and what's more, blights are not common (so this would otherwise really limit the Darkspawn's possibilities).

@Caradhras

It's no more or less imaginitive I suppose than Return to Ostagar was. That was primarily revamped areas with a new point of view placed on them. I'm not disagreeing with your points. That said, I think Bioware is setting a standard that this is what we should expect with DLC. I'm not saying they couldn't do better; just that we shouldn't be surprised when they don't.

At this point I fully plan to skip darkspawn chronicles. I'm just not interested in playing a fairly quick encounter as the darkspawn.

 

One Drizzt is enough... I sincerely hope we'll never be graced by a DAO Drizzt lookalike... IMHO CRPGs really don't need yet another Gary Stu.

I get what you're saying and I totally agree that RTO wasn't that great either. It seems that Bioware has set some crappy standards for DLCs and in comparison Warden's Keep is indeed a great DLC (despite being short it included a nice background and some choices).

The major (only?) difference is that RTO can be played by any DAO character so that despite being linear and rather boring it has some (limited) replayability (you may want the loot and codex entries for your current character anyhow). Is it worth it? Probably not if you don't plan on playing numerous runs of DAO and will get some use out of the DLC stuff.

I think that it's rather fair to assume that Chronicles doesn't offer much in the way of replayability (unless it has some achievements with silly requirements that force you to play more than once -even then who cares about achievements?) I wonder how many times you can play through a DLC that is all about hack and slash before getting bored to death by the repetitive action?

I've decided not to get it because I don't care one whit about a parallel universe in which Alistair would be the last Grey Warden and the main character would have died (Feastday was crap but at least it played upon the backgrounds of NPCs to offer some sort of diversions).

More specifically, I really don't care for DLCs that have nothing to do with playing a CRPG. If it has no dialogues and no choices then I won't play it. I believe that the best way to make that point is not to get that DLC. I could post on the official website and get drawn into arguments with the fanboys over there but in the end I only hope that Darkspawn Chronicles won't sell as much as previous DLCs so Bioware (and EA) will take notice and start making decent DLCs or at the very least DLCs that offer some RPing opportunities (don't get me started on that Darkspawn thing -playing a mindless bogeyman slaughtering peasants is not RPing).

Seriously, you know something is wrong when mod makers make better free content (Alley of Murders) and when developers start ripping off a modder's idea (Emissary) and turn it into a hack and slash fest with no roleplay involved.

 

Hehe, I agree that a Drizzt look alike would be going a bit far. I guess that my point is, with Awakened darkspawn out in the world, there are more options out there than follow the Mother or follow the Architect. Some might choose to make their own way. Some might even choose to battle their own kind.

If well written, I think a darkspawn that takes a dramatically different road than the rest of his brethren could be really cool as a future companion.

 

In a way, there is a "Drizzt" type Darkspawn already in Awakening.

Spoiler

When you are coming to the end battle, where half of your party and your PC is off fighting in Amaranthine while the rest are back at Vigil's Keep, there is basically an Emissary of The Architect who approaches you and you can have him fight along side you to help clean the city of those who follow The Mother.

As far as Emissary goes, player created mod wise, I have had an ongoing conversation with a gentleman from BioWare on the social network, through pm's, in which I had asked him initially if that's where the idea for Darkspawn Chronicles came from - thinking that it had to do with them asking for people to suggest good quest-line player created mods. He said that they weren't even aware of that mod, until it had been nominated, and that their developers had been working on DSC for quite a few months now. The reason behind them asking for nominations had been for their Euro developers - and I guess once one is selected, they will be working with the creator to make it a part of the BioWare world.

Now hopefully you don't think of me as being a total "fangirl" of Dragon Age. While I am totally in love with the game, I know it has flaws as does many of the DLC packages they've released (best ones are The Stone Prisoner and, as Cara stated, Warden's Keep). Next in line for playability is RTO because I do end up using that armor quite a bit later on and it's much better than Blightblood that you can get for finishing off DSC. I didn't mind DSC as much as some, basically because it's interesting to see things from the other side, see what kind of tricks they have up their sleeves (esp the shrieks and their abilities), and the change in codex entries on your Warden's comrades, as well as other Ferelden natives, is quite interesting since your Warden never made it in this reality. In fact, once I edit the size of the screenshots from the last playthrough I did, I'll upload them into an album so you can see the different entries (only ones I don't have are on Alistair since as soon as his health is out, he's dead, so no codex for him, nor do I have one for Barkspawn, the mabari, which is a bit understandable). The biggest problem with DSC is its lack of replayability.

Ok, I've said enough I shall step down off soapbox now!

 

To be frank I regard the Stone Prisoner as being part of the original game.

Don't get me wrong I love this game too but some things are just irritating. I could mention bugs that are not fixed and patches that break things among other things (for instance, why are crossbows utterly useless?) that is just nonsensical.

Then they must have other jobs on the side or their whole team must consist of two guys working double shifts...

Seriously? How can a modder singlehandedly come up with something as good as Alley of Murders when it takes months for developers to recycle existing areas with close to no dialogue? Or a few lines of dialogues and incredible delays in the case of RTO...

A DLC shouldn't be all about shiny extra items either (although it may be part of the appeal of RTO, IMO it's rather disappointing that the best part of RTO should be getting Cailan's armour -and what a cool idea it was to have that locked chest on the battlefield ).

 

By the way, regarding that locked chest... I remember there had been a discussion as to why Cailan would have his father's sword in the chest instead of with him. I think I figured that out. If you watch the cut-scenes with Cailan in them, he wields a greatsword - Maric's sword is a longsword. It very well could be that, while it's not a piece of weaponry he uses often or feels comfortable wielding, since it was his father's he wants to keep it with him in some way. A chest makes sense in that case, at least to me.

I'm thinking the answer lies behind door #1. I'm sure that the developers are working on more than one project at a time - not only that but they have to test it and make sure that it works for PC as well as console use, whereas a player just needs to make sure it works for the PC and hopes that, if they didn't work out all of the bugs, the players downloading the mod will speak up and tell him/her what the problem is and where it lies. Plus, and I hate to generalize like this, but if you think about it - there are quite a few gamers who spend the majority of time either playing games or finding ways to tweak them instead of living a life outside of their computer. In some cases it makes for great downloads for the rest of us, but it's not quite so great for their socialization. On top of that, in the players' cases, creating these mods is more a labor of love that they're doing for love of the game - and they want others to share in that love. Game developers, while I'm sure having a love for this kind of work or else they wouldn't be doing it, are also in it for the money. The longer they take to put something together, the more money they make, and the more job security they have. They also might be working at a disadvantage, being told that the project can only take so much money to put together, so many man hours allowed for that specific project, that perhaps sometimes they do what's just easiest that might satisfy the masses while at the same time falling within the parameters that their superiors have set. At least those are my opinions on it. I love BioWare - their ability to tell stories within games is awesome - but agreed, they have fallen quite flat when it comes to their DLC. I got the gifts/pranks more because it's totally hilarious to see Sten walking around with a butterfly sword The chastity belt for Zevran was pure win as well

Ok, I definitely do talk to much - whether it's with my mouth or with my fingers. I think I shall shut up now

 

RtO wasn't that bad. I recommend bring Loghain along for one RtO trip to see his reponses in addition to seeing what Alister says as well as what Wynne says. It is also a spot where you can get the dog if you never free the dog earlier in DAO.

As for Darkspawn Chronicles; it was short changed compared to Warden's Keep, Shale, and even RtO standard. You didn't get any good items or story from it and it was just as expensive as the rest of the DLCs.

As for Bioware DLCs, testing, patches and expansions....I was told more than once on the Bioware forum that there are three to four teams working on DAO. One team does all the patching and testing of the new software, one does all the DLC content and the other one or two teams work on the full expansion/new game for DAO. I'm not sure how big the teams are but that is what I keep on hearing. If that is the case than why hasn't the patching team fixed the consoles issues and why did the DLC team allow such a unproductive DLC to be released.

As I Celtic said the Darkspawn Chronicles idea is good but I believe they should of waited and improved it or made it a full expansion.

 

I did that. A good DLC shouldn't get replayability because you have to play it once with Alistair and a second time with Loghain.

RTO is bland, linear, unimaginative, formulaic and only features one choice (which doesn't make much of a difference anyway). If that isn't "bad" per se, it's certainly not great that's for sure and it is at best mediocre.

Putting together a mod takes a lot of work but it's not fair to claim that official developers are at a disadvantage if you compare them to modders. After all there are testers for DLCs and stuff whereas modders can only rely on their own tests and the community. You're right when you say that modding is a labour of love but if anything, modders make do while it is sensible to assume that official developers have access to all the resources and software that they need -not to mention the fact that they work as a team which means that they can refer to specialists in different areas whereas a modder can only count on himself or herself and perhaps some fellow modders (who may or may not be helpful or know how to help with a mod problem).

A modder or a developer have one thing in common though. They work within constraints and that is not necessarily a bad thing. Constraints allow for creativity. A modder may have to work out ways to make do with limited resources or knowledge (often the limiting factor) and a developer may have to respect deadlines and execute plans for a project (while this may be frustrating it probably makes their task easier in the end).

In the end it is only fair to have higher expectations from a professional developer than from an amateur modder. That is why after playing Alley of Murders I can only say that the latest official DLCs are clearly disappointing (Stone Prisoner and Warden's Keep offered some interesting moral choices and thus some RPing elements -something that is almost entirely absent from Return to Ostagar).

DAO was advertised as a mature CRPG with a strong emphasis on choice, moral ambiguity, epic elements and RPing; turning it into a hack and slash fest is not a sound idea.

 

DAO is exactly what you wrote; however, not all DLC will equal the original game. DLC is just added content to expand a game for up to a couple hours. Will a DLC ever be a great as the original game; maybe, but mostly no.

I also didn't say the RtO was an excellent or fantastic DLC; I said it was OK. OK by my definition means it wrapped up what was unfinished. Which is taking care of the king's body and going back to Ostagar.

 

Sorry but I don't think "it wrapped up what was unfinished."

It only demonstrates that what happens in Ostagar stays in Ostagar.

By that I mean that your character could strut across Denerim in Cailan's armour and nobody would notice or even care. So much for dealing with all those loose ends.

If RTO makes you happy then good for you. But we'll probably have to agree to disagree, DLCs don't have to be crappy, unimaginative, formulaic, tedious, linear, hack and slash fests.

 

Heh. My first thought when getting Cailan's armour in RtO went along the lines of: "Oh, that's just brilliant. People think we (Grey Warden party) are to blame for the king's death so let's just stroll into the capital wearing the evidence, that'll convince them."

I actually had a save before Landsmeet ready in case Alistair showing up in Cailan's armour gave Loghain enough ammo to play the crowd, but nothing happened - that was rather disappointing.

I'm with Cara on DLCs - extending the game shouldn't be about items and fights. It should add something new, experience wise.

On Darkspawn Chronicles - I never liked alternate timelines and I hate when they mess up canon. The game is about being a Grey Warden. It's almost... disrespectful to aid the Blight, even in an alternate reality.

 

I agree, alternate timelines tend to mess things up without bringing anything to the game. For instance I really don't like the idea that Alistair could take the crown and almost defeat the Blight on his own. That definitely belittles the importance of the main character as a Grey Warden.

Making leliana his lover tends to cheapen the whole thing as well.

By the way, how did they justify the dog following Alistair or even worse Morrigan not leaving Alistair once they reached Lothering?

 

Alister had to man up and do what the PC would have done if he or she wasn't around. For instance, calming the dog down.

As for Morigan; maybe he realized how useful she is instead of tossing her aside.

I can't answer these questions as I am not the developer or story writer for the game or DLC

 

Thanks for clearing that up!

So they don't give much background for that alternate universe then?

More seriously (and I think you can answer this question) how does the Archdemon sound? Must be quite impressive to hear it spout orders to your addled Darkspawn mind.

 

It is more like text across the bottom of the screen with a vision of the Archdemon. No talking what so ever.

 

I hope your darkspawn know how to read! Otherwise you're going to have one frustrated arch-demon!

I am becoming less and less interested in the DLC with every passing post.

 

Incredible. And they actually charge money for that DLC?

Even modders manage to get some voice acting for their mods. Alley of Murders had some decent amateur voice acting and there are plans for a complete voicing of the Ser Gilmore NPC mod (more than 1700 lines).

So much for immersion... Bioware completely dropped the ball on that mod... Still, it's good to know that Darkspawns get text messages.

 

Those monthly iPhone bills must cost the arch demon a bloody fortune!