And people wonder why I only drink Brita Water from our filter . . .

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LKD at least has explained his use of terms before. Since he can't call them... female dogs... because it get's censored, so he uses those terms instead, which oddly don't. I don't know how much sense that makes, or if Kitrax agrees with the reasoning, but there it is.

As for the suspension arguement, this isn't out-of-school suspension, where you go home, but in-school suspension. I've never had it, so I don't know what it's like, but the name suggests you're in the school durring it.

 

Well, fist off, I used the term in reference to LKD's post. And secondly, most cheerleaders are sluts...especially the varsity cheerleaders. That's why the swim team and water polo teams don't have cheerleaders.

 

And the "*****" epithet doesn't have sexual overtones? Calling a woman a ***** isn't really any better than calling her a whore or a slut. If I said as much about any woman in front of my mother, I'd almost certainly be slapped. My wife, who is younger and more tolerant than my mother, takes less offense to the term but would have me sleeping on the couch for weeks if I ever called her a *****.

The ***** epithet is censored for a reason. Such a term isn't to be used in polite company -- and no, "*****" and "bastard" are not directly equivalent. A bastard is a man who's father wasn't married to his mother. A ***** is a dog.

 

I've never thought of ***** as sexual in nature. Insulting, yes, but not sexual. I've always thought of it as the female equivalent of bastard (guess that's not censored), not in direct meaning, but in insult meaning. Both are gender specific, but more focused on overall character than sexual activity.

What I mean is, calling someone a bastard doesn't usually mean you believe he's an illegitimate son. Usually, it means he's a complete a**-hole. Likewise, b**** doesn't mean the individual is actually a canine, but rather a complete a**-hole.

 

@LKD: Reading the title of this thread I thought you were addressing the presence of contaminants and other stuff in tap water.

I only drink Evian mineral water because it's not far from the place where I grew up and if you spell it backwards you get the word naive.

In the Middle Ages physicians would diagnose diabetes by tasting a patient's urine.

It's always a good idea to be polite with people who handle your food. I have a friend who told me appalling stories about what would happen to people who gave waitresses like her a hard time. Anyone remembers the scene in Fight Club in which Tyler Durden takes a leak in a big bowl of soup?

That also reminds me of the stories about mints and peanuts in bars and restaurants being tested for urine traces or public swimming pools water being contaminated with urine and stuff.

Still, even if getting your drink spiked with urine is pretty nasty I think Joacqin makes a very good point. Teenagers do very stupid things, they won't learn if the answer is to ruin their lives every time they do something incredibly stupid (which happens all the time).

Interestingly enough, it's the same in French. Derogatory words when applied to women often have sexual connotations (for obvious reasons, it has to do with the sexual taboos and the representation of women in society, I'm not qualified to get into a Freudian analysis but I think anyone will agree on that point).

Whether or not the literal meaning applies depends on the utterer. I'd tend to agree with Drew because the meaning of the word is quite clear but usage doesn't necessarily imply that it is meant that way. The word bastard in English doesn't necessarily mean that the person being referred to is the illegitimate offspring of unmarried parents (what NOG said in the post above mine). Just like ******* or arsehole doesn't mean anything literaly (to be frank having an anus is a good thing if only for defecating purposes).

 

When I make someone my ***** I'm not giving a foot massage.

 

After reading the article I have to say that I agree with LKD on some aspects and those who are voting for the punishment already having fit the crime in other aspects.

First off - when I was in high school, the varsity jocks thought it would be hilarious, those who were graduating that year, for their senior prank (well one of them) to be squirting random students walking throughout the lawns or sidewalks with Supersoakers filled with a combination of bleach and urine. Guess who wasn't allowed to graduate with the rest of the senior class, and who caused the cafeteria (when it wasn't in use at lunch time) to be used as our school's In-School Suspension room since the original wasn't large enough for all of them. Not only that, but they had to pay restitution to those who had their clothes damaged due to that combination. Luckily, those of us who were driving past in my friend's car, coming back from lunch, saw what was happening and got our windows up just in time so we wouldn't get hit. That and spray painting "Senior Class '95" on the sidewalks (therefore defacing school property) - great bunch of people there, eh?

Second - I've been in In-School Suspension before - spent quite a few days during my junior year there (what can I say - goody two-shoes decided to finally rebel lol) - and it's no picnic. Whoever is overseeing you watches everyone in the room with eagle-eyes, no talking is allowed, and you can only go to the bathroom when they say you can... they tend to take everyone at once. If you gotta go before then, oh well, you're out of luck, and better hope you can hold it til they figure it's a good time to let you go. You're basically in lock-down til school is out for the day.

Seriously though - no matter how much a body filters waste, and how sterile someone thinks urine is, there are some things that can pass through that are quite harmful to re-ingest. There are diseases that are passed through bodily fluids. There are some bacteria that are pH resistant and temperature resistant that could be passed through and if ingested by another person, who knows what kind of harm that could cause.

While In-School Suspension and being suspended from cheerleading for the rest of the year is a good start on punishment, I also think they should also go the legal route and demand that these girls (or their families if they are under age), do something to pay those that they forced to drink that concoction something for pain and suffering... that and they should also be forced to be tested for any and all diseases so that those who were made to ingest the soda/urine mix know whether or not they might possibly end up ill and if so, what from. They should be banned from attending any school activity (such as their prom), and for those graduating - take a page from my own high school - they will receive their diplomas, after completing restitution to the victims, but not be allowed to partake in the graduating ceremony itself.

Just my

 

Indeed although some may agree that a foot massage can be very sensual and almost sexual depending on circumstances -am I the only one who thinks about Pulp Fiction?

Might be a bit harsh but I can imagine that not being able to attend the prom would be a huge (and rather fitting) punishment for stupid girls. I'm not sure about the whole legal action thing though (I don't know in the States but over here there would be ground to press charges anyway) but apart from that I think that what you're saying may serve as an example to enforce some more appropriate behaviour in the future. The main problem is that those [insert the derogatory term of your choice here] were certainly convinced that what they did was cool.

Now regarding detendion and suspension, I used to be a teacher and I can tell you that over here things are not what they used to be. Detention and suspension are jokes when in my time it was a major pain in the nether region where the sun never shines.

Seriously, I've seen parents who would remonstrate that it would conflict with their children's extra curricular activities or school administrators who would insist on detention hours being given in the gaps in the daily schedule (in order not to inconvenience the pupils and the staff who had to watch them). I was even told to give hours of detention during my classes...

When I started teaching, a pupil would misbehave and I would give him or her two hours to spend in detention on a Wednesday afternoon (pupils over here don't go to class on Wednesday afternoons). By the time I eventually gave up teaching, I had to find a convenient spot (for the kid) in the timetable and cope with the annoying brat while teaching another class or spend my own time watching the kid myself. I was under the impression that I was the one being punished.

 

Yep, that is the 1st thing that pops into my head everytime someone references a foot massage. Love that movie!

Seriously, I think when LKD makes such a reference, it is just his way of showing his disdain. I know not to take the sluts reference for it's black and white definition, but more as a general way of him showing he is pissed. I can relate. To be honest, when reading post from LKD, I thought everyone would of figured that out by now. It's one of the things I like about him!

 

Thanks Blades!

As for your comment, Drew, I hear what you're saying, but there is a part of me that would be considered by some to be mysogynistic -- I merely consider it to be the part that cries out for fair, balanced, and reasonable treatment of all human beings. The epithets I use for women of low character reflect my disdain for their behaviour and mindset. I have taught these sorts of girls many times. Here are their characteristics:

1: They have no respect for authority at all.

2: They have no respect for their peers at all.

3: They believe they are the centre of the universe.

4: They go out of their way to make others who lack their status feel terrible. Their bullying of weaker girls is worse than anything I've ever seen boys do.

5: They are superficial in the extreme.

6: They use their sexuality to achieve their goals. In this they are egged on by our oversexed society.

7: They also use their sexuality as a weapon against males who cross them -- I know of 3 separate occassions when such girls made false accusations against male teachers (I was never a victim, thank God)

8: They are dishonest in the extreme.

9: They disrupt almost any group in which they are placed.

10: They always have some BS excuse for their actions, either extreme wealth (I'm driving a nicer car than the majority of the staff here, so I'm above the rules) or extreme poverty (I'm poor and downtrodden, so that means the rules don't apply to me.)

Now, terms like "jerk", A*****e, bastard, and the like describe boys who have those characteristics, but they don't really apply to girls.

Now I can see in my mind the girls who I taught who I can guarantee would do this crap. I know exactly how they would respond. They would use their social network of harassment to harass their victims by proxy even during the in school suspension. They'd lie their faces off and maybe even shed a few tears when facing the principal, then walk out the door and do the same frigging thing again within half an hour. They'd joke about it where and when they knew their vicims could hear it. They exist because our lame-butt society allows them to strike fear and humiliation into the hearts of others while protecting them from getting a taste of their own medicine.

If my daughters were a victim of such a prank, I'd be calling for an expulsion for the girls who did it. At the same time, I don't believe in a double standard. If one of my daughters pulled a stunt like this, I'd be sad about it but I would totally agree with the expulsion. I would also ground her butt for 3 months minimum -- no going out with friends, no telephone, no internet, just hard labour aroudn the house - -cleaning the downstairs bathroom grout with an old toothbrush comes to mind as a good start.

 

Pissing in someone's soda is pretty mean spirited if not downright reprehensible as far as pranks go, but it doesn't make you a slut. Neither does being young, *****y, pretty, popular or even a cheerleader. Promiscuity is what makes you a "slut", and you have no evidence of any kind to indicate that these young girls are promiscuous. That you feel the need to use sexually demeaning terminology when referring to such young girls is in my opinion appalling. This isn't a one time thing either. You have a pattern of using sexually demeaning terminology when referring to ex-girlfriends, your ex-wife, and pretty much any woman that does things you generally don't approve of.

If you called a promiscuous woman a slut or a prostitute a whore, I'd be offended by the crude and judgmental terminology but I would nevertheless remain silent. When you call a high-school kid who makes a poor choice a slut-- especially when that poor choice in no way reflects on her sexual habits -- that's a different story entirely and I'm going to call you on it every time.

 

LKD, you work as a teacher and you describe your pupils as soulless, viscous, flesheating monsters. Maybe it is time to get into a different line of work? I work with some pretty darn annoying kids well and sometimes I would like to smack em but I am a far stretch away from the open hostility you showed in that post. In the end it is part of my job as a teacher to help all my pupils who have problems whether that problem is that they are being bullied or that they are bullies. Part of my job is to try to explain to the kids what is unacceptable behaviour. I have a hard time believing that 15-18 year old kids are evil. Thoughtless, yes, selfish, yes, stupid, yes and a whole bunch of other epitaths but not the evil monsters you describe.

The way you feel towards them and quite a lot of other people I have honestly only felt towards one person in my entire life. Sadly it is the collegue I am supposed to work closest with. I can't stand her, if I believed in evil I would label her as evil. She is close to 50 and flirts with her pupils, she demeans and degrades the pupils she doesnt like, she shows blatant favoritism, she refuses to help kids in need of help and well I can go on. My point is that in my 30 years of life I have met one person I truly truly loathe and I have met pedophiles and murderers. You seem to encounter people like that on a daily basis. You must be the unluckiest person in the world.

 

OK, if any of you guys take the calling of sluts by LKD seriously, well, I don't what to say. Most have been reading his posts for a few years, me for about a year and a half. It only took the reading of a few posts of his to understand his style or online personality type. I highly doubt he says these types of things at work, being a teacher, and gets away with it. This is where he gets to vent. Why call him out on it? There is nothing to call out.

 

Actually, the fact that he might not say these things at work only indicates that he is capable of showing restraint when he's not posting anonymously on an internet gaming board. It doesn't mean that the attitudes suggested here are not indicative of his true feelings (and, in fact, his explanations for his comments would suggest otherwise).

 

He vents, he vents a lot he vents so much that I am honestly worried about him and the people around. There is much anger there.

The main thing though is that this is a forum for discussion and LKD is expressing opinions and attitudes I disagree with and so I comment and reply to them which is what I assume we are all here to do. What would be the point of forums if people didn't adress statements they disagreed with?

 

In LKD's defense I don't think that he believes all his pupils are "soulless, viscous, flesheating monsters"... Regardless, this thread is not about bashing LKD. I'm pretty sure he got the point about how many posters here disapprove of his use of the word "slut" and he even explained why he used it. So yes, it's probably mysogynistic but I don't believe we're here to censor a fellow poster -I'm not saying that it's what you've been trying to do either- (that's for the mods to decide, contrary to ****, *****, ****, *****, ****, ******, ***** and for instance ***** or ******** slut is not censored on the boards). I don't want to invoke the First Amendment but I will.

As someone who used to be a teacher I can understand the frustration and the vexation that trying to teach pupils like those [insert the derogatory term of your choice here] can generate. It's pupils like those who can make it nearly impossible to create a safe learning environment for everyone.

Blades is probably right about the venting thing. When you have to be politically correct all day to avoid a lawsuit it doesn't hurt to let things go (in due moderation that goes without saying).

In any case, even if the words LKD used may be considered to be inappropriate, there is no justification for such an attitude. Those girls are indeed bullies. I may disagree with LKD's phrasing but I do agree with the sentiment behind those words, i.e. that what those girls did was indeed despicable and that they shouldn't get away with it.

EDIT:

Anger may not be the most noble feeling but it means that things affect you. It's not a good thing for a teacher to become utterly jaded and indifferent. Losing one's temper is not a good thing either.

I'm glad I quit teaching because seeing how kids disrespect teachers and get away with it I think it would only have been a matter of time before I snapped. There is no bail in France and I'm way too pretty to do hard time.

I completely agree with you on that point but still I believe we made our disagreement over a poor choice of words rather clear.

If you're right about LKD's anger and if you're indeed worried about him you'll agree that pushing him back into a corner is not a good thing.

 

lol @ "Caradhras: too hot for jail." Good thing you've got a built-in excuse never to go, like that one hot teacher who slept with her students. "Your honor, the problem here is that my client is too hot for jail."

 

I thought the point of the forum was to discuss the point in fact, not LKD's manner. But, I kind of get where you're coming from Joacquin. It's just that I think it's LKD's way? so to say? *Or better yet, compare him to the onery, everything-aches-all-of-the time old person who spews out a bunch of complaints about everything, all of the time(Kind of like Ky Gota in the Black company series). Most will disregard the complaints, no matter what the subject or who the recipient of the tirade is and weed out the true meaning of such words, which is usually something much simplier, like "Get off my lawn..." I find myself doing the same with LKD.

* - LKD, this is not me calling you an onery old person, just a comparison if you will.

 

Gosh, give the man (LKD) some slack, will ya?

There's a huge difference between his ranting and assuming he actually means everything he says literally.

I pretty much share his loathing for the true bad apples out there -- they really, *really* need to be chained, manacled, drawn (Edit : or raped ) and finally quartered until they desist with whatever they're doing. And no, there's no ifs or buts about it.

It's just sad that trying to convey that message without the necessary politically correct sugar coating around it hangs up on the technicalities, ie. "that's just rude", "not EVERYONE is <expletive>", "but <he/she> had such a tragic childhood and way too little toys to play with so we need to understand <him/her>... You get the idea?

 

Well, I sure stirred up a hornet's nest here! I'll address a few of the comments:

Drew, the terminology I use is simlar to any insult that is bandied around -- it is to be taken figuratively, connotatively, and not denotatively, or literally. it indicates a total lack of respect for that particular mindset.

In addition, I don't see pranks like this as being "a mistake made by a teen" -- A mistake is blurting out the f-bomb in the middle of class. A mistake is wearing the wrong coloured socks or a top that doesn't match your pants. These sorts of pranks are preplanned, malicious attacks done with forethought -- and, as I heard from so many students (who seem to believe that a teacher at his desk is deaf) they KNOW that the consequences will be relatively minor -- I've HEARD such students laugh about how easy it'll be to get off the hook by putting on a show in the principal's office. It's not just my imagination.

joa, you kill me! I did not say that all students are like this -- I have taught some amazing, decent, compassionate, socially conscious, mentally stable, and all around useful students. They are out there, and they make teaching a joy. But the other kind ARE out there, and the fact that they are not dealt with is a disgrace.

Now, as for online personalities, well, of course I don't tell my students what I really think of them -- no sane teacher ever loses control of themselves enough to tell deviant students the truth about their inner feelings. But in the staffroom, it is common for teachers to vent a little, as well as when they go home. What I say here reflects my honest opinion of how these sorts of kids operate, and I can express myself without fear of recriminations from ivory tower dwelling PC administrators who care more about the perpetrators than they do about the victims.

I very rarely lost my temper in the classroom -- so rarely that when I DID snap it usually shocked the tar out of my little darlings.

As for anger, well, I channel it appropriately -- I have never been arrested, and my friends mostly see me as a generally happy guy who has strong opinions.