Persecuted Germans find political asylum in the US

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No prob, dmc. Without knowing what the general requirements were, it's hard for me to be critical. That said, you may be correct. However, there may be an assumption that the general stuff is provided at HS. I'd probably suggest some sort of writing class, since it seems that writing and spelling skills are seriously bad these days. For whatever it's worth, the writing skills (spelling, formatting, etc.) of the people on this board seem vastly better than some other non-gaming boards that I visit, and this board happens to include plenty of people for whom english isn't even their primary language. Heck, I think that the writing skills of those people are better than those of many for whom English IS the primary language.

It's really pretty annoying constantly reading posts (on other boards, mind you) from people who don't know the difference between "then" and "than", or "it's" and "its", or "their/they're". Or from people who are so lost to formatting that they write one eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeendless paragraph that entirely unreadable. Or write out "could have" as "could of".

sigh.

sorry for the tangent....

 

I am not a fan of lots of government interference in the schools in terms of narrow ideological requirements, but at the same time I believe that it is necessary to have academic (not ideological) standards that are high.

I am a high school English teacher by trade. I'm a damn good one. In my classes students learn composition skills, grammar skills, reading skills, critical thinking skills, and communication skills. I also seek to teach them an appreciation for literature that at first blush may seem . . . unappreciable.

I have also trained in the social sciences. I could quite easily teach just about any High School level history, politics, economics or other such course. I have taught these classes a few times.

However, despite the fact that I am very good at math and would likely give a good accounting of myself were I forced to teach such a class, I have not studied the methods used by excellent math teachers. I don't have the grounding in math to teach on the same level as those guys do. I would be doing my children a disservice if I were to teach them high school math.

I also never took the time to study how to teach young children. I could not do the same job as an experienced elementary teacher, and it would be a detriment to the children were I to teach children of that age.

What I am trying to say is that while I think home schooling might have it's place in certain circumstances, I do not believe that any parent, no matter how smart and awesome they are, can give a kid the well rounded education modern children need. I've made education my life, and it would take a truly odd set of circumstances to influence me to try it.

 

From what I've heard, those home-schooling through High School usually are, or at least really smart and well educated. I could manage some of the languages, but only because I'd be learning them before teaching them, and a professional, who's maybe lived in the country for a matter of years and could tell us about the culture and such, would do better.

I'd like to second this. The writing skills on these boards are far and above what much of the internet is. It's a wonderful relief.

I don't know if this is a difference in personality types or what, but I payed attention to the way good teachers taught.

One of the interesting things the study claimed was that whether parents were teachers or not didn't make any difference.

 

So did I -- that's why I decided to become a teacher. But different disciplines require different skill sets, approaches, techniques, etc. I paid attention to the doctor who did my vasectomy, but that doesn't qualify me to perform the operation.

And the study, well, even if it isn't biased, it still likely didn't measure everything. The idea that teaching kids is a job that any college grad can do just as well as an Education grad is . . . insulting. It takes a lot of work, desire, talent and training to become a good teacher. I'm not saying that you or others like you wou\ldn't do a good job, NOG, but I take issue with the idea that you could match someone who does it for a living and specifically trained to do the job.

 

It's also insulting to think that any college grad can provide therapy as well as a psych major can, but the reality is that, for most problems most people run into, a friend is as good as a therapist. If you have a serious problem, get professional help, but amateurs aren't necessarily incompetents.

As for the study, the source is biased, but there's no evidence yet that the study is. As for what it measured, it measured standardized test scores and correlated them with various factors, such as parent education level, whether parents were teachers, how much money was spent, how much state regulation was present, etc. This is something that was measured.

 

To defend NOG a bit, I think that having been well-educated in a given field DOES give you some ability to teach it at a more elementary level. While I seriously doubt that any single person can do all the subjects a high school student would normally require effectively, it seems equally silly to say you wouldn't be able to do some of it.

For example, when I was a graduate student, I had a teaching position where I taught undergraduate lab students. It isn't a great stretch to say that someone who is working towards their Masters degree in chemistry, knows enough about the subject matter to teach freshman and sophomore lab students. That said, I probably did NOT know enough to teach an upper level course that I had recently completed myself.

 

@Aldeth: teaching young children is certainly not the same as tutoring undergraduates. Different skills are involved. I takes more than academic knowledge to teach young children. I don't think a university professor would necessarily be good at teaching younger kids either. The main difference is in dealing with adults who enlisted to study in a certain field whereas children are just children and you can't (and shouldn't) expect them to show the same maturity as undergraduate students (who may not be that much mature to begin with but that is another matter entirely).

 

I agree - but I thought we were talking about high school students. I definitely agree that there are different skills for teaching younger children. IMO, it may be harder to teach a 5-year old how to read, than to teach a 15-year old biology. And there are different specialties for the different groups as well. In most states in the US, you need a degree in elementary education to teach the small ones, but a degree in secondary education to teach high school (or a Masters in the relevant field).

 

We've been talking about so many things I just wanted to make sure we weren't talking about younger children.

I agree with you that unless you're specifically trained it is certainly more difficult. My mother (who is now retired but was a fully qualified teacher) taught me to read and write before I learned it in school which allowed me to skip a class entirely. That being said I don't think all parents could do that.

 

While teaching young children involves different skills than teaching older ones, these are skills that every parent should develop. It's a sad, sad thing to think that some parents today don't see it as their responsability to teach their children anything.

 

You know I'd be happy if parents didn't try and teach their kids what they should be learning at school but instead taught them to behave, have a sense of boundaries and some respect for others (including other adults and teachers). That would be a great thing and it would actually make teaching kids way easier. Too many kids nowadays are pampered by their parents and get access to too many things way too early (the internet for instance -without any supervision of course). It's no wonder that they end up acting like drama queens and can't understand that everything doesn't necessarily revolve around them. Basic education (which includes house training) shouldn't be taught by teachers but by parents, unfortunately they're either too busy working their asses off all day, too self absorbed or simply don't care.

Too many people actually think that parenting is easy and it certainly is not but too many parents are just doing it all wrong. Kids are offered too many choices and they consider school like just some other thing to be consumed and discarded if it doesn't taste right.

IMO it's wrong to actually treat children like adults. Children are not adults and they shouldn't be treated like adults. They do have rights but they should understand that they also have duties and obligations. Too often it is school that has to teach them the last part and that doesn't go down particularly well because nothing at home have prepared them for this.

It doesn't take that long to tell just by looking at a kid if the parents are doing a good job.

 

I agree 100%. Ask any child psychologist and they'll tell you straight up that a child's mind doesn't work the same way an adult's does and that their brains don't look like ours. Treating them like small adults is a catestrophic mistake.

 

I'm glad to see we can agree on something: break up the bubbly, it finally happened!

 

I must really congratulate you on that point, Caradhras. Teaching kids manners and proper behavior (as well call it here, "the first seven years") is something that only parents can do, or at least is much, much harder to do later. Without it, even the best educator will find it hard to get to the child.

 

Too true. I'm wondering how drastic the broken tap was that they couldn't study at all In the UK the schools are not bound by the environmental laws that businesses are bound by (temperature etc) they are treated as guidelines. We had a winter in Highschool where the heating was completely broken and ended up having the school rewired over the summer and the heating system completely reworked over the Christmas break.

Arguments such as "exams are getting easier", "Homeschooling was good enough for the nobility and royalty" and "the curriculum changes so much even teachers can't keep up." are oftimes simply misplaces belief.

In the UK the upper class used to, in EARLY years, have their children homeschooled - generally one on one with a governess who was a fully qualified and experienced teacher.

The curriculum changes a lot - so let's ignore it and do our own thing. Is pretty poor, the curriculum is adjusted depending on latest information available on a subject, alterations are made depending on what changes are made lower on the educational ladder, changes are made depending on public perception or what information is available to public use.

On related note, education in modern scooling is more than the pure academics of latter days. Essentially exams were 'harder' in 'olden tymes' because you learnt what everyone else learnt before you learnt it and had to memorise facts and figures on generally irrelevant and unlinked subjects. Modern education, at least in the UK, tends to focus more on what is encountered, utilised and linked together, it is viewed as a subject as a whole of relevant information more than dislocated items placed together with the grace of an epileptic camel. It was generally an era where left handed students were also punished, which also made exams much more difficult if you had to write with your off hand.

 

I've known many parents who home school their children and I would want none of them to teach my children.

I also find it humorous when parents think they know better for their kids than doctors or child psychologist just because the child passed through their loins. In most cases those I would not trust my children to spend the night in those homes.

 

Again, for the basics, I would do the same. I've heard some freaky things done by child psychologists (from people who actually worked with them, so first-hand). If my child is kinda down, or a bit rebellious, or has a cold, I can manage it. If my child is have seizures or hallucinating, I'll talk to professionals. To compare that to students, if my children can study reasonably well, I think I can teach them reasonably well. If my children end up being problem-children, I may not. Then again, when it comes to schooling, a lot of problem-children come from home issues, so those parents probably aren't interested in home-schooling.

 

I agree. I can sum it as simply as this: My wife is an elementary school teacher. She went to college, got a 4-year bachelor's degree and is currently working towards her master's degree. She also has eight years experience teaching children as young as 6 and as old as 12. I would say it's safe to assume that she is better equipped to home school our son than the average person would be, and home schooling is something that she wouldn't want to even consider doing.

If someone who is an elementary school teacher feels a typical classroom environment is better equipped to teach our child than she is by herself, I agree that it is stunningly arrogant to presume someone who has no formal training as a teacher can do as well as, or perhaps better, than a school.

 

Yet, again, the only studies conducted on the topic disgree with you.