Where does DAO rate as a CRPG for you?

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Alistair can be different depending on how you answer him. In my party he jokes on and on and I often reply with sadistic jokes of my own, but as long as I don't say something way, way out of line his approval remains positive. I have to give him gifts every once in a while so he can gain his constitution bonus, though. I like him best with Morrigan around.

At first, I also felt that way until I learned more about using the AI, and after that gameplay has been smoother and I've moved on to using more complicated tactics, which help a lot in normal+ difficulty. You might wanna try out the basic AI first and then customize as you see fit, and keep everyone at "default" behavior. Remember its best if you yourself ordered your characters. Leave the simple stuff to the AI, like using a critical hit attack to shatter someone frozen or using nukes on someone with vulnerability.
Very few battles are actually the same, except for the fact that not all enemies will spawn conveniently in front of you and not all of them will oblige you and fight like "fair" and in a straightforward manner. You just need to be prepared for this. There are many ways to gain an advantage: crafting (potions, poisons and traps - never do without), stealing and making sure you always have the best equipment, laying lures and traps in possible soon-to-be-hostile environs...

I actually think DA:O's odd mechanics are part of its charm. It's been too long since I last tried to actually work out a tactic, much less try to formulate one when you're stuck between a mage using fireball and a revenant and with your character at less than 1/2 HP, but once you get a better feel for the game combat is actually very enjoyable. Especially during times when you've learned to remain always one step ahead of the computer and suddenly, something goes horribly wrong.

 

DAO reminds me of how BG2 worked. You never know when the next fight might be your last if you were not prepared. After years of playing BG2 most of us know the next fight and are prepared when we walk through a door, etc... DAO is new and we actually don't know, well I do now because I've played the game now 4 times. LOL.

 

The one thing you can be sure of is that it will be just like the last 25 fights, in almost exactly the same combat and creatures as in the previous 25 areas, and in same room that looked pretty much like the previous 25 areas. Tedious is the word I would use to describe the combat, and unimaginative to describe the environments and atmosphere in DA.

The combat is hardly anything like BG2, because in BG2 you never really knew what was around the corner or what you were walking into. DA is a one-dimensional imitation of BG2, or even Icewind Dale. I hate to sound so critical, but really I don't know if I can bring myself to finish this game or not. It's gotten so boring.

 

You're talking about something quite different than what I'm talking about. It's true that not every battle will be exactly the same, but what I'm trying to say is that fighting dark spawn when you've just arrived at Ostagar is literally no different from fighting those very same dark spawn at level 20. They're still just as easy or difficult, even though you're supposed to have gotten much stronger. What's the point of gaining all that experience and levelling up many times if every single enemy in the game remains just as strong relative to you?

Individual battles may differ slightly from one battle to the next, but those small differences are simply not nearly enough to keep the game interesting from start to end.

For me it was only yesterday, when playing Medieval 2: Total War. If you like tactical battles, you're playing the wrong genre of games. And even so, in terms of tactical combat, DA:O does nothing that the BG and IWD series didn't do many times better. And they introduced new enemies instead of leveling up the same enemy time and again.

I'm sorry, but how is this an argument for DA:O? I never knew what was around the corner when playing Doom 3 either, but that has little bearing on what I thought of the game as a whole. Plus, if you have a party member with ranks in Survival, you'll know exactly where, how many and what level of enemies you'll encounter next.

 

Doesnt seem to be any *random* encounters they all seem scripted and I am sure they all come at the same time in every game through.

 

I understand your frustration. I know it can be annoying. I know because I completed the game 4 times. Instead of getting annoyed role play the PC. The PC and Alister are the last two GW in the land and it is their duty to stop the blight and defeat darkspawn where ever they are. Hmm… this includes the annoying fights, but it part of being a GW regardless of how many of the same darkspawns you fight.

Another thing to remember is that the dream sequence and when in Ozzamar there are thousands of the same creatures ready to march to the surface with the Archdemon. After seeing the dream sequence I knew I would be battling the same creatures over and over and knowing they would get tougher and tougher as the game progressed.

It is a pitty that the game annoying fights is stopping you from completing the game. It really is a great game if you can look past the annoying repetitive fights.

 

Munchkin, if there's one thing that a game should never, EVER make you feel as a player, it's tedium. If the game wants you to feel an emotion exactly the way your PC would feel, then there is a very, very long list that the designers should go through before hitting "boredom". I certainly hope they didn't actively set out to make their game boring, because if they did then they should be fired on the spot. Think of a book that tries to tell you how bored a character is. Would 500 pages of "I'm bored", over and over, make for a book you'd be willing to read? I certainly would never want to touch it (and yes, I'm going over the top. DAO isn't that boring, but you know what I mean ).

I agree with this, or at least agree that the game has some brilliant elements. I also agree that these good elements are worth putting up with the repetitiveness of combat. The problem is that the VAST majority of the game is endless fighting. Now for those who don't mind the combat so much (you and BTA for example) then of course the game will be extremely enjoyable, but for those of us who do find the combat insufferable (Chandos, henkie and me) it can be hard to justify going through a game where 90% is tedious combat, just so we can get to the good 10%. It could've worked if combat at least went faster, but there's no way to really speed things up (short of spamming AoE spells, which I did liberally in my run).

 

Or they could have made it such that the darkspawn you meet throughout the game all stay at the same level, so it would be hard for a low level character anywhere, whereas a high level character could actually feel like a high level character as (s)he cuts a path through the enemies. Doesn't seem that hard to implement, but might turn off a few people who dislike the hard fights in the beginning.

I understand the reason behind behind using level scaling too - it's easier for the game designer to balance the game - but that doesn't make it anymore tolerable.

Actually, if the game also set out to give the player a realistic depiction of what the PC would feel, I think they've done a terrific job. I'm sure that if I was placed in a similar situation and was forced to fight endless hordes of enemies, I'd get bored and tired of it real fast too. Not you **** nuggets again?! Can't you just **** off and die?! Perhaps we should commend the designer for managing to make something so mind numbing seem interesting for so long?

Then again, for something that's ostensibly intended for entertainment, reality is perhaps not something to strive to simulate too precisely.

 

Thank you for the advice, MB, and I'll stick with it. I'm hoping it will get a bit better, once I unravel a few more plot details.

 

It is worth playing on. The story is nice. Take heart

 

The random encounters happen as you travel the overland map, and they don't happen at the same time and neither are they scripted. All of them should happen to you at some point though, if you travel around enough.
Some of them are very dangerous for low level characters, which can be frustrating for someone who doesn't want to reload.

DA:O is tactical in that every second can matter in combat, unless you're very prepared. In large-scale or difficult battles I usually pause every time any of my character finishes using a skill/spell, then stop and decide what to do next, based on developments. If the revenant tries to pull one of my characters I have him/her run behind the nearest obstacle, for example, or if something tries to overwhelm my characters I use a cold spell on them asap. I've already set the AI so that as soon as something is frozen people automatically try to shatter it... something you should learn to do over time. It's not that bad, you just need time to get used to the game.

 

This game might be closer to BG1, as I think someone mentioned. Some of the same criticisms about BG1 seem to apply - That some of the envirionments were empty and dull, and that combat was tedious in some places, or too little of it, in the case of BG1 (I don't think DA has too little, just too much of the same). I think someone else also mentioned that this series may turn out to be just as good once the sequels start appearing. That way well be the case with DA.

 

If you find the game too difficult you can always ask for help, since the game's difficulty can also change depending on your play style. Many would even welcome the opportunity to give advice or exchange tactics - we've already been through Baldur's Gate series and we know that "x rules!" or "x is overpowered!" or "x sucks!" depends on who's playing the game. DA:O is still pretty new, too.

I personally didn't have any problems fighting in Orzammar and the Deep Roads, except for that first unofficial proving fight. If you have problems with your characters going off by themselves, try setting their AI to "default" - this makes them respond to attacks but wait for your orders otherwise. Keep only the archers in "ranged" - note that those with the "ranged" AI will flee from melee and this is good for archers but usually bad for mages in the middle of casting something. When in possibly hostile environs always keep the "hold position" option turned on, then control your tanker via w, a, s, d (lets hope you gave him Taunt), click the "select party" button beside the "hold position" button, and voila - you control your tanker's movements with your keyboard and your other party members' general movements with your mouse, opening up tactics and making micromanagement easier. Just have your tanker walk somewhere (you party members will be holding their positions), then once you think the area is safe enough click on the "select party" button and move your other party members normally. This is perfect for setting up ambushes or countering enemy ambushes. This also makes it easier for you to order your other party members flee if a fight starts and you find yourself surrounded - just leave your tanker (he'll automatically hold position) then order your other party members to run in the corner. Then prepare to nuke the middle of the battlefield - monsters almost always go for the target with the highest armor first, unless attacked. Let's hope you have heal/force field. Note the character you selected first before clicking the "select party" button will always stand at the front of the formation (your tanker in this case), and will receive the brunt of attacks.

Never put an "attack" AI on your characters (like enemy nearest: "attack") - this interferes with tactics, causing your characters change targets as soon as you deselect them. This applies to any type of AI that orders your characters to attack something. Also try to avoid putting "smarter" AI on your characters since often times this can be counter productive (like if you tell them to focus fire on the enemy with weakest health, they'll probably go chasing some fleeing archer with low HP and step on every trap in the area). Instead, put "practical" AI like casting Grease when enemies are at a long distance, or casting vulnerability on the nearest enemy, or using Pinning Arrow on a faraway monster and using a stunning AoE when surrounded. It's best if you handled the more complicated tactics yourself. It might take a while to get all of this working, but after that combat will be easier. You can then switch to working on more "advanced" stuff, like using the right spells, learning enemy resistances or immunities, reading the codex (it sometimes contains info on particular monster types), enjoying the scenery, etc.

I'm very sure that once you get used to certain combat measures you battles will become a lot more manageable, and you can enjoy the other elements of the game. Usually my battles only get tedious when my inventory gets full,then I'd need to pull out of some far-away dungeon just to sell stuff. There are some difficult optional encounters, like the revenants I mentioned, but you can always come back for them later. Difficult random encounters can usually be resolved by reloading or "killing" the leader of the band.

 

Just my own here.

But one of the things I do see DA:O doing as good and in line with (and better than BG2) is letting your decisions have a storyline/epilogue impact.

I agree with the complaint that it would be nice if more of the quests done in a certain fashion had ingame results you could see and appreciate. But still I haven't seen many games with the variety of epilogues depending on your choices as I have with DA:O.

ToB gets a bit beyond a typical game having only one ending by changing the ending for a given party member depending on if you romanced him or her as well as making the big decision for your protagonist's future. But that still isn't as many endings as DA:O.

I like the variety. So there is my plus.

 

the game is around the same level as bg2 and NWN 2 for me. great story, very well written characters and a fun combat system.

Considering this is the first game in a new engine, I am looking forward to what they will do with it, when/if they make a sequal in an engine they know. (like this or the one from ME2). So they can focus even more on the story.

In my book the DA franchise has the potential to be better then the BG series and that says a lot.

 

This is only my opinion, but I don't think the game is especailly difficult, and in fact, once you get a few combat tactics down, it's easily played. I can't add much to what already has been stated by others about the leveling, except that I agree. And the combat is just too repetitious and too predictable. The problem I have with the combat is that I keep getting bored.

 

After having had the game a little while, I have to say I'm not sure if I rank it up there with BG2 anymore. A short notch below, maybe, but below. The reason being: I beat it, with my Human Noble sword-and-board tank, in what I consider a "perfect game" (i.e., I did every side quest, 2 complete romances, got all the cool equipment, at least some considerable game time logged with every NPC, etc.) and it was great. By I just realized that I haven't felt the desire to play now in over 3 weeks. With BG2, I was raring to give it another go almost immediately, and I was hooked on that game for a good year straight. Who knows - I may catch the bug again in a few weeks. Or, it may be the fact that I'm 10 years older now (WOW!) than when I first got my hands on BG2, and I've changed a lot since then.

Bottom line, I guess, is that I'd be lying if I ranked them equally, personally. On measurement of pure enthusiasm, mine has tapered off more than I expected, sooner than I expected. That bumps Dragon Age down a notch, in my book. It's still a fantastic game.

 

Feeling kinda like you do DR, enjoyed my first run, was planning my second even before the first was done and I did started a second. It was a week ago I left my rogue just after Lothering with no inclination to go back. In that time I have played quite a bit of WoW, some Morrowind and some Medieval 2. The more I think about the more constricted, small, limited, slow and simplistic DA feels. I got my money's worth but not much more and I would still recommend it to others but it will never be more than a decent game. I rank together with Fallout3 which I treated pretty much the same way although I wonder if I did not have more fun playing F3 than I did playing DA. I rank Oblivion much much higher despite all it's glaring faults. The end verdict is that when the novely has worn off DA just isnt a very funny game..

 

I hear ya, joaq. Part of me wonders if the game is too detailed.

With the BG games, you have a tiny avatar who takes on minor physical changes (colors, armor weapons, etc.) with a very God-like top-down view of the action. This forces the player to mentally picture much of the character's actions and interactions with the party. To wit, all dialogue is text-based, so most of the story elements are also left to the mind's eye. Much of BG2's gameplay felt like reading a novel, so just as much was going on in my head as was on screen. With Dragon Age, so much is spelled out for you, and with such pristine detail, that I wonder if it does its job too well. That the playing experience is over-satisfying, if that makes sense.

Just thinking out loud.