This site, BG2 SoA & TOB are a nightmare

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Thanks to Bioware's main site, it has taken me over 3 days to figure how to get myself registered and be able to post here. Better registration set up is needed.

Anyway about the game.
I fail to see how this game got such good reviews as well as this game being so good. Any game is only as good as the instructions being given.


So lets start with this game's tutorial system:
I figured I would go through the games tutorial system due to the instruction manual being Greek to me.

What I mean by that is that only someone who knows and is familliar with the 2nd Edition D&D rules, will be able to understand more than 3/4 of what is being said.

So this is my experience with the in-game tutorial
I have found the tutorial system in this game is 100% completely useless. Like the instruction manual, it's only being explained from someone who already has the know-how on the 2nd edition D&D rules.


I mean seriously, why do I have some guy yelling at me every 12 seconds or so and wont shut up because he keeps telling me to do something that has yet to be explained in a manor it can be understood by someone outside the D&D realm, rulings, and knowledge.

...it was something about resting that's all I know...
I finally had to press ALT + F4 to just to shut the guy up because I was beyond annoyed.

There are a few things in the tutorial it mentions and then says it's going to give you a few moments to work with it, but epic fails to explain what I am supposed to be doing so that it can be understood. I mean I did something, but have no clue to what I did, how I did it, or what caused it, or if I was even in the right place the game said to be in.

I have long since uninstalled this game and won't play it until someone in voice chat explains and goes over every small little aspect about what everything is and gives examples on why you would even go about using anything in it.


The games instructions are sloppy, completely uninformative and can only be used and or understood by someone who has any form of understanding of how the D&D rules system works.


So in closing this is my experience with this game:
1. You shouldn't have to know about D&D in order to be able to play this game.

2. The tutorial might as well not even be in the game.

3. Saving throws, Radius, penalties, kits, and all this other stuff, should have been explained before doing anything,

4. Once the stuff in 3 has been explained then you should be given a clear cut example of why you would even need/do/use any of it by giving examples on them all being used.

Without the stuff in 3 and 4, the rest of the rules are 100% useless and cannot be followed by anyone who does not know anything about the D&D rules.

Since only the people who understand this will defend the game about how it's easy to understand or any of this nonsense (Which of course they will say that) they already understand it so of course it's easy for them.

This is the ending result:
The only way anyone outside of the D&D setting is going to ever be able to understand this game, is for someone to sit down and in voice chat while the game is opened, and have every single little thing and unfamilliar word broken down, along giving examples on why you would use them, where, and when,
It is as simple as that.

 

Maybe you should try playing BG1 before jumping into BG2, not everyone does it this way, but BG1 starts much more basic (at level 1). It might help you get a better handle on the rules, and there is much more of a 'tutorial' in the first game, all of Candlekeep has tips and explanations, there's even a nonlethal fight with illusions to test all of your skills in combat.

Aside from that, there might be a correlation between it taking you three days to figure out how to register on a forum and you having a hard time understanding the rules that the BG series uses. It's definitely a complex system for newcomers, but once you understand a few basic terms it becomes very fun (and a lot easier to understand).

If you don't want to play through Baldur's Gate 1 first, I'd suggest giving the game another try with a pure fighter that is easy to understand (just take high strength and constitution, then point and click). Then again, all of BG2 takes a bit of thinking, and comprehension. Personally, I love all of Baldur's Gate 1+2, the story is great, the combat system is great and in-depth, even today it competes with the newest games in terms of your ability to be a strategist. There's nothing more satisfying than blocking a horde of enemies with your fighters and throwing a perfectly aimed fireball to sear them all into a charred lump.

 

I played this game before I even had any experience with D&D and found the manual was clear enough for pretty much all players.

If you wanted a clear understanding of the rules you should have looked up AD&D rules online or in a handbook, it is not imperative to understand the rules to play the game.

If you want to ask about specific questions on mechanics or about kit abilities then you can always ask on here or in the chatroom or another website that has fans of the game.

This is also a sequal. A second part of the trilogy. While you can play this without playing the first game, I presume you have not played the first otherwise you wouldn't have these struggles. The first game didn't even have a tutorial but had monks that would say little tips when you spoke to them in the prelude. There are also tool tips in the game and clicking on most things (either left or right clicking on most screens) provides more information.

Why did Bioware make you struggle with Sorcerers' Place? The sign up is simple here, it has a nice clear link saying where to sign up and big buttons to post new topics or reply to older ones. This was also the first forum I have used many years ago - I have not heard anyone complain about the layout before now. Perhaps you could elaborate how you strugged with it in the appropriate forum?

 

Rahkir & 8people

Nothing either of you said has any bearing on this. Now are either one of you actually going to give any form of real help, or just continuing to shovel the usual BS about HOW YOU DO OR HAVE DONE THINGS?

If either one of you don't already have xfire, get it and then add me on it as a friend, that way one or both of you, can verbally walk me through all the interface options, what everything means, how to use it, why I would use it, and examples of them being used and where they would get used.

This also goes for anyone else who wants to try to use the THEY UNDERSTOOD IT AND SO SHOULD EVERYONE ELSE situation.

Case in point this:

Except for the major aspect that you forgot to include is that only people who play D&D, and this game know how to do this.

BTW a sequel does not need the 1st part to be able to play and or understand it.

Anyway, I have xfire opened now, I'll be waiting.

 

I'm not going to speak for 8people, but that attitude really isn't going to make me want to help you, or want to walk you through the game. Though... I can imagine it might take both of us to get you to comprehend the rules.

I gave you advice; play the first game first. No, you do not have to, but you're complaining you don't understand the rules; so I suggested that you play the first game, which starts out more basic. If you want to jump right into the second game, don't insist that we help you, try reading the manual again slower this time and actually try to understand it. Or follow 8people's gracious suggestion, and find an online AD&D resource.

 

Baldurs Gate is a trilogy

Throne of Bhaal is the third installment.

As apparently me response indicates I need serious help or to attend school I shall involve myself with this individual no further. He obviously has no desire to do anything other than troll on a fan forum with no desire to look beyond a manual and a tutorial to further understand the game.

 

I take it you didn't try just playing around the first time to see how the mechanics work, then? I have never played any other D&D games outside of the games hosted on this site and never have played the tabletop version. Not everyone here plays D&D often, and for some, this is the only D&D stuff they experience.

I think we all would appreciate the specifics that you need to understand in order to play the game (what exactly about kits do you not understand?), though I think anyone with any kind of geometry knowledge would know what radius means - just because the feet are scaled down and pixelized doesn't change what radius equals - after all, if you are having problems, then it is possible someone else is, and this thread could help them as well.

So, where do you wish to start? Would dice and dice rolls be a good place to start? Or do you have somewhere else that you feel is more worth going over first?

 

1st time on site, took less than 3 minutes to sign in.....

Isnt baldurs gate one of the most modded games there is?

 

Well, before hiding myself from this thread I thought I'd offer you a few resources on the BG2 rules, hosted right here on Sorcerer's Place, specifically:
Dan Simpson's AD&D Rules FAQs intended to help people who don't have experience with D&D before playing BG.
And The Sorcerer's Place BG2 Walkthroughs & guides page in general has many useful resources, other than Dan Simpson's excellent FAQ, namely a few by Ragusa explaining the basics.

 

Let me make this real simple for everyone:

There is absolutely nothing on this site or any place else that explains this game so it can be understood and followed by someone who does not understand the D&D rules.

Someone who is not familliar with the D&D rules, won't ever be able to understand this game wiithout an audio walk through from someone in a voice chat, and telling someone who doesn't understand the D&D rules to go to links on here does nothing but cause even more and more confusion.

But above all how dare anyone try to have the balls to say these games take some time to get used to. The only wya you can get used to them isto understand them, which leads in a circle to the clowns here on this site who don't understand what I originally said about no one who doesn't understand D&D rules cannot ever understand this without an audio walk through.

Don't know why people cannot understand that, it's been said and then they keep doing it.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by Bioware's main site and posting here? This is a fan site, it's got no official connection to Bioware.

As someone who came straight into BG2 like yourself I would definitely agree with you about the usage of the rule set. Telling people that a spell will affect D4+3 HD of monsters is spectacularly unhelpful.

I would say though that you can happily play through the game while figuring most of the stuff out by yourself. A lot of stuff you don't need to figure out really. The fighter types are best on the front lines and the wizard types are best at the back out of harms way. A lot of my tactics were 'wrong' as I played through the game but they worked fine. I used far too many wizards but I just blasted my way through everything and used a lot of summoned monsters to compensate when I was supposed to have more muscle.

I'm going to presume that you can figure out stuff like how to attack and how to equip stuff so I'll give a random list of stuff you should know first.

Use the spacebar all the time! It pauses the game and lets you issue orders before unpausing it to get back to the action. I've heard a few people say they never realised how vital this is.

As it's slavishly based on D&D rules a lot of actions are worked out by mimicing dice rules. If you see something say D6 then this means a 6 sided dice is rolled giving a number between 1 and 6 (average 3.5). Generally the higher the better then. A longsword (D8 damage) will usually do more damage than a dagger (D4).

As far as weapons go, the more + the better. That's the main thing. Armour is the opposite, the lower the armour class (AC) the better, and it can reach negatives.

You may remember that you were given 'proficiencies' in the various weapon types. Never use a weapon you're not proficient in, you get a massive minus to your attacks. Most of the other party members come with good proficiencies in the first place so you don't need to worry about them. There's lots of most weapon types so don't worry too much about which you pick for yourself. Just try to avoid too many characters wanting the same weapon type.

Pick whoever you want to be the main character. You'll easily be able to get through the game no matter who you pick so just go with what appeals to you. If you want advice on what's important for a particular character just ask.

Other party members (Non Player Characters, NPCs) will join you during the game. NB: it's not like Japanese RPGs where everyone is in your gang and you're expected to swap them in and out. You should pick 5 you want and stick to them, otherwise they'll never get a lot of experience (I still beat the game fine despite swapping them). Nearly all the characters do have a special quest only they give you though. Best compromise is to bring them in for an adventure or two when you first get them but to keep in mind which ones you like and have those ones make up the bulk of your party.

Your party should have 2 fighter types to stand on the front lines and take all the attacks. There should be one thief to get rid of traps etc. (any character with a bit of thief will do, they don't have to be dedicated). One divine caster for healing. One arcane caster for attacking. Fill the other slot as you like. Note that a multi or dual character can often fill two roles in one. The NPCs are a varied bunch so you can choose them around your own character, don't feel your character has to be the one to fill a gap.

Your reputation value measures how good or evil you are. You should probably decide beforehand which you're going to be and pick NPCs accordingly. If you act the opposite way to how they expect then they'll moan constantly and eventually just leave. It's too much hassle keeping track to be honest.

There are two main types of spells, divine (cleric and druid) and arcane (wizard). Only divine can heal (clerics are better healers than druids) but arcane has much better attack spells. Make sure to have at least one of each, spells are essential and very powerful. Sorcerers are wizards with a better spell system than the others but to be honest you're best off avoiding them for now. If you pick the wrong spells for them you'll completely mess them up.

I still don't understand the saving throws properly! You don't really need to, tougher monsters are more likey to pass, that's what's important.

You'll pretty quickly figure out radius and ranges once you start throwing some spells around (fireball is awesome). It's annoying at first that they don't give you a grid to show you but you'll soon appreciate why. An area effect spell causes colossal damage if you target correctly, the catch is to avoid hitting your own guys. Just use them against far away enemies who stand still until you get a better feel for them. Eventually you'll be able to aim so that it clips the enemies attacking your guys without any friendly fire.

 

He's a troll. He's already been kicked off the GTA and Gamespot forums... among others, probably.

Edit:
Include Neoseeker and Gamefaqs.

 

Three references I would suggest:

I couldn't find Dan Simpson's AD&D basic game FAQ on SP (perhaps Tal can link it), but you can find it on gamefaqs.com.

Baldur's Gate II & Throne of Bhaal FAQ/Walkthrough by Dan Simpson (the first several pages cover a lot about the mechanics of the game).

Baldur's Gate II & ToB Class FAQ by Dan Simpson (it's about halfway down the page and gives great info on the characters you can play).

These three references should give you a condensed version of the manual -- which is one of the most detailed I've ever seen. To be honest, having someone hold your hand and talk you through playing a game is quite undignified and unreasonable.

[#1 has been posted already at http://www.sorcerers.net/forums/showpost.php?p=700963&postcount=9 -Tal]

 

Is this one of those times us "veteran gamers" (me at 24 years old!) wonder how the youth avoid serious injury and death everyday by not reading instructions? This guy didnt want to figure it out himself, he wanted handholding.

When I first started playing SOA, I didnt understand what 1d6 meant, let alone THACO. I understood AC and that negative was good, but that was it. Despite those handicaps, I managed to kill both dragons in SOA and clean out both the beholder hive and the illithid lair. Only later did I start to learn about what the rules were.

Or was this guy just looking for a fight anyway?

Its telling that he thinks this site has an official connection to ANY developer, and that he expects us to tell him exactly how it works. I'd be more sympathetic if he had tried the game for say a few hours, and come back and say, "hey guys, they mentioned 12d6 but I have no idea what that means, can anyone explain it?"

 

After reading this thread, it sure seemed like he was trying to get anyone to voice chat with him. Methinks he had alternative reasons in doing this.

 

Likes he's a big old fruity freak!