Carter's Racism accusation

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You misunderstand what I meant by dismissing and are missing the context of the original conversion. By dismissing all racist jokes as just jokes, one is purposing ignoring those that are mean spirited and spoken by bigots. Such kind of "joking" is nothing more than hate-speech that perpetuates and spreads bigotry.

 

No, I did not "miss the context" of the original conversion. NOG was referring to his experience with racial jokes that both Blacks & Whites laugh at together. All of my comments have led from that point. No one is dismissing all racial jokes as just jokes. Certainly not I. When you "dismiss" that type of "joke.. a.k.a. a$$inine comment, your are sending the message to the original teller of said joke/comment that what he spews has no merit. Hence lending no credibility to his rhetoric. It's your interpretation of "Dismissing" that is wrong.

 

Well that's the craziest thing I've read in a while. You're saying I'm misinterpreting something I wrote? I'm the one who wrote the word dismissive and I KNOW what I meant. And I was referring to dismissing all racist jokes as just jokes, when many are hate speech.

 

Easy, fellas - I don't think the two of you disagree all that much here. Take my word for it that semantics battles aren't worth it. Deep breaths.

For clarification, I agree that you can't dismiss all racist jokes as harmless, as some truly are meant to be. You have to take the intent of the joker into account and the context with which it was said (i.e., when my wife and I do it vs. when strangers do it). Even if meant well, it's very easy to take such things the wrong way, so it's best not to use them at all in mixed company. In the privacy of one's home, however, let the "hey, don't eat the cat!" jokes rip.

 

No DR, you should have said breathe deeply....

 

Snook, that's not quite true. You might not think the provisions are inadequate, but they exist. In order to apply for health care insurance under the lousy plan that was recently released by the Senate Finance Committee, you need two things: A valid SS#, and have submitted an income tax return in the last year. While it is certainly possible to acquire a fake SS#, it is not so easy regarding the income tax return.

This may come as a surprise to you, but illegal aliens frequently do not submit income tax returns. (If you are here illegally, it's usually a bad idea to send the government a document that contains your current address.) I would have thought you would have heard about this, because it is one of the main Republican talking points of being so vehemently against illegal aliens - that they get use of public services, but yet they do not pay taxes into the system.

 

Right, in response to NOG telling of his experiences with racial jokes, you said "You must live a very sheltered life not to have seen or heard racism. To dismiss it as a joke is a form of denial." In which I defended NOG, as your original usage of "Dismiss" should not be applied to NOG's comment, as NOG was referring to jokes amongst all parties, where no one is offended. Hence the there is no racism to deny. But, to dismiss a real, hatred motivated racial comment or joke is not always a form of denial, though I will agree it can be, depending upon the intent. As I have stated previously, I can dismiss someone's racial comment and still not deny it, I am simplying showing my disdain for it. There is a difference.

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Hey, stop that DR, I don't want a Republican label on my back....

 

Sort of, but not entirely. Because committing an act of fraud (stealing the SSN or other identifying information of someone who is in the United States legally) would be required for an illegal to get on the program in the first place, the laws already on the books would probably suffice for enforcement. That said, I agree that adding some enforcement language to the bill would be a good idea.

 

That's one thing I have yet to comprehend, why past administrations have let this happen. We are willing to let some of our own go without, but we'll let the illegals have what our own can't get legally. That's just stupid. Take care of our own 1st. Worry about the rest of the world 2nd.

 

Well, the somewhat conspiracy theoretic point of view is that illegal immigrants are good for business as inexpensive labor. So big business proponents look the other way.

I don't know if I believe this, but there may be some who think this way to serve their own interests (rather than the country as a whole).

 

Blades, contrary to popular belief, illegal aliens don't normally get state or federal benefits without defrauding the government. The only medical "benefit" illegals typically get stems from the law telling hospitals that they can't refuse to admit patients with life threatening conditions -- even if they have no insurance and can't pay. This law applies to anyone going to an emergency room, and for good reason. I doubt you'd want to see this law repealed. Our welfare rolls are not stuffed with illegal immigrants.

 

And upon release from the hospital, are we escorting them to the border. Nope. They go right back into the circulation. That is stupid. Who pays for the hospital visit? We do in the end. We need more initiative from the Fed in stopping the illegals from getting into the country, even more in getting them out.

 

Amen to that, Blades. All illegal immigrants no matter their skin color or heritage, should be deported as soon as they are found. Since that's even across the board, it's not racism.

Back to the topic, though, I hear Carter's frustration. It's obvious that a lot of the criticism levelled at Obama is racist in origin. However, I find it a dangerous road the walk -- it was just as dangerous with Bush's "you are either with us or with the terrorist" nonsense, designed by someone with a grade-school playground mentality. The obvious purpose of such rhetoric is to shame everyone into shutting up for fear of wearing a really horrid label.

People of good faith who disagree with Obama's policies should not be made afraid to express their opinions for fear of being smeared with what is currently among the ugliest words in the English lexicon, "racist".

Of course, those whose opposition really is racist in nature need to be publicly shamed for their racist comments, but if they also have valid points about Obama's plans, those points should be considered even if the speaker is a reprehensible human being.

 

I disagree. Anyone who voices hatred should be ostricized and deported.

 

You realize that there are several reasons for this, don't you? For starters, there are more than ten million -- Ten. Million. -- illegals living in the US. The idea that the INS is somehow going to be able to track down and deport such a large number of people who don't want to be found is laughable, as is the idea that watching emergency rooms for illegal aliens being admitted is even a remotely effective or efficient use of an INS agent's time. The INS needs to spend its time stopping more illegals from coming in, deporting high priority (ie criminal) illegals, and tracking down and punishing employers who knowingly bring in and employ illegal aliens before they go after Pedro from the emergency room at the city hospital.

Aside from the obvious safety concerns necessitate prioritizing criminal Aliens first, aiming for employers, criminals, and high profile illegal Aliens works best for several obvious reasons. Criminal and high profile illegals are, for starters, easier to find. As for pursuing employers, it is equally obvious that the harder it is for an illegal to get a job in the US, the less likely people will want to come into the US illegally -- or stay here. With our limited resources, this is the wisest course of action. There simply aren't enough INS agents out there to be tracking down and deporting every illegal alien admitted to an emergency room, and even if there were, their time would be better spent elsewhere.

 

For me (and I would imagine the majority of conservatives), it's his policies that spark the backlash, not his race. If he were just another white President, I'd feel the same way about him that I do now. WAY too many people throw the race card around easily, it seems now more than ever before, as if it could be the ONLY reason people dislike him. Whatever happened to the people that were saying that he was The Great Unifier, ready to heal the racial divide in the country and bring everyone together? Things are much worse than they have been in the recent past.

 

Then the "tea pot party" should stop playing it, and it would no longer be an issue....

 

The moniker of "The Great Unifier" wasn't given with complete understanding. While the election of a black president has helped in some areas (i.e., minority communities), the shoe is now on the other foot for the average white person. Some of us whiteys do not appear to like the change very much. Change brings discord -- and this was a huge change for some people.

Most of the racist issues and accusations I'm seeing are from white people.

 

I think you're right T2, and it handily explains the utterances of 'I want my country back!' you hear from scared, middle aged white ladies.

I think the reporter here got it quite right: "I Want My Country Back" Means "How's the Black Guy in Charge?"

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In their country the only explanation how Obama could become president is that he somehow cheated, like by forging a birth certificate or the like. He is manifest proof that now, really, there is going to be change, to the worse. If the negroes have eventually managed to become president things have changed. It's one thing to pay lip service to blacks and whites having equal rights, and quite another to see that manifest itself as a reality. They're going to lose their once privileged status. Obama the socialist will take their privileges away, their money, he's a nazi. Add to that that Obama is a Yankee from Chicago, which is probably an additional factor for people in the South.

No it doesn't make sense, but it doesn't need to. This is about sentiment, first of all, about resentment and fear, and sentiment has a habit of defying logic.

They're indeed deeply afraid of change that Obama will bring.

 

I don't know about 'resentment' but certainly there is fear in some people. I don't like some of what Obama is doing -- he's spending way too much of my money (but then so did Bush). But I don't feel the anxiety and animosity over these things that others appear to feel -- my feelings on the policies are the same, but I'm not as worked up about it. Either I'm just an easy-going guy (which I doubt anyone here on the boards would agree with) or there is another factor causing the escalation in others -- I tend to agree with Carter on this and think it's latent bias (racism).

I don't think people are afraid of change Obama will bring, but rather the change he already brought.