Crowley vs. Gates

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LKD - Come on, dude. You deal with kids all day long. YOU are the professional and control the situation. You and I both know that those kids "puff up" like pregnant penguins if it even appears as if you are disrepecting them (even if you really aren't).

Adults are no different. Anyone who deals with the public knows that people nowadays approach almost every situation defensively. The rudeness and disrespect in society is a cultural problem. Often times cops are just as bad as the average person in that respect. When you work with the public you learn to expect it, whether it's some egotisical cop or an arrogant college prof.

 

I think, but don't know for sure, that the reason a police officer asks you to step outside, in this day and age, would be to have exposure to others who can verify what is taking place. Others being more police or the public. It's unfortunate that they have to take such measures, but it's necessary.

 

Dammit, not living in America i had no clue what this was about and guessed it must be something about Aleister Crowley vs Bill Gates, i'm quite disappointed lol

 

Well, that may be, but I only know that I don't need to step out of my home unless I choose to, and I probably would not without a better explaination than that.

 

I probably would step out, as I don't really fear the police, I prefer to hope they would do their job with honor and treat me well, so I give them that amount of respect. But I see and concede your point...

 

I feel the need to post this classic. Which I couldn't find on Youtube so I didn't embed it.

 

All of this Crowley-Gates non-sense is giving me a headache, I need to go to Mo's for a couple Duffs!

 

The police officer is asking a person to step out for two reasons:

1. To get the home owner away from potentially dangerous situation. Two potential bad guys were seen trying to enter the house -- it is possible the owner does not know this and does not realize the danger.

2. To separate potential bad guys. Get one bad guy out of the house and potentially covered by other officers -- until that happens the officer at the door is the sole target of both bad guys and basically a sitting duck.

If the officer had simply said, "I'm sorry to disturb you but we had a report of two men breaking into this residence...." The conversation would have followed naturally.

Unfortunately, I believe the officer asked for ID first without any explanation and Gates initial response was "no." Things got ugly from there....

Had either been courteous this would have been a non-incident. For example had Gates' response been, "Of course officer, I'll just step over here to get it. What is the issue?" I think this would have been a non-issue as well. Gates could have used the conversation introduce himself and educate the officer a bit.

 

Gates could have easily just been cooperative and later played his race card right to the hilt. Instead, he chose to be a belligerant, obnoxious jerk. I believe that all belligerant, obnoxious jerks need to have the living crap beaten out of them, regardless of race.

I also believe that while a lot of white people throw the word "n*****" and others like it around far too freely, a lot of Americans of African Ancestry (to attempt political correctness here) throw the term "racist" and other like it far too freely. Both are hurtful and uncalled for in everyday conversation, and while I suppose in some conversations it is valie to use the word "racist", slinging it around as a weapon is just as vile as the N word.

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say they all need their butts kicked, but a little display showing how pathetic they really are wouldn't hurt em...

 

As I commented, a cop would have to provide a good explanation, not just say, "step outside." If he said, "we have reason to believe someone was seen breaking into your house," and it wasn''t me, or someone living in the house, that would be a good explanation. In this particular instance, Gates claimed that he explained what had happended, but he became offended when the cop continued to doubt him. That of course, brought up the issue of race, at least according to Gates' version of the story.

 

...I thought he "explained what happened" before showing ID. Which is why the officer continued to press for ID and, after being shown ID, left the house.

It takes two to tango and I believe both share the blame equally.

 

I agree.

 

I don't know exactly what happened, but here's roughly what should have happened (as I understand things):

Officers (plural) appear at the door and knock/ring doorbell.

If someone answers:
Officers explain why they're there and ask for ID.
Individual(s) provide ID(s).
Officers ask to examine the house for potential intruders.
Individual(s) explain that he/they had trouble opening the door, which probably resulted in the call.

If no one answers:
Officers secure entrances/exists (go around back) and attempt entry.
If the doors are all locked, it's reasonable to assume no one broke in (what kind of thief locks the door behind him).
If the doors are open, police identify themselves, enter and secure the house (all of it).
As individuals are secured, police should proceed as though they answered the door.

Police should always be ready for any individual to turn violent, even if they are the home owner, and especially if they are being beligerant and aggressive. It's only a small step from verbally aggressive to physically aggressive.

After the police exited the house, if the individuals continue to act beligerantly, and expecially if they're drawing a crowd/being excessively noisy, the police should have the right to take them in for disturbing the peace, if nothing else. You can yell all you want in your house, but if you do it on the street, making a scene, that's something else.

Whoever diverged from the above made a mistake (and it sounds like both did), but I have yet to see anything that suggests any reaction more than a stern talking to or a slap on the wrist (minor disciplinary actions for the police).

 

NOG - The police cannot enter your house without your permission or a warrant. This a basic Constitutional and property rights issue. As James Otis remarked, "Why would you put your liberties in the hands of some petty officer?"

The 4th Amendment to the Constitution is a Foutainhead issue of the American Revolution. People died on the Battlefield and of sickness and frostbite on the fields of Valley Forge to give you the rights that you have. They didn't come by accident. While I'm all for cooperating and helping the cops do their jobs, I never forget the price of the liberties we enjoy, nor would I sell them so cheaply.

 

No, they cannot. Unless it is the homeowner who is committing a crime:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

 

BTA - That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that the owner has a "reasonable expectation of privacy" in his home. I changed the link.

 

So after reports of a break-in at the residence and the person answering the door refusing to show ID, the cop should've telepathically known that this person owned the home?

From everything I've read on the subject, they talked inside the house, his identity was proven after some time, but Gates couldn't let it go. He followed the officer out to his front porch, continued to be belligerent, and at that point was arrested for Disorderly Conduct. Seems completely reasonable to me. If the officer is leaving, why would you continue to berate the officer (especially now that it's spilled out into a public area)? On top of that, he had the nerve to call the police officer a 'racist' even though the officer has taught a class on how to avoid racial profiling for the last five years. Some people need their race cards revoked.