21 year old woman auctioning off her virginity

Heck, I live on the east coast, and see ads for Las Vegas and all their casinos all the time. They advertise especially heavily if you watching the travel channel, or the World Series of Poker on ESPN. Yet the vast majority of states - even the ones that have legalized slot machines - do not have casinos where you can go play Texas Hold 'Em.

 

Advertising is a tough nut to crack. Let me give you an example from my own beloved home town: Edmonton

Under Alberta law, prostitution is not illegal. A woman can take money in exchange for sexual favors. What IS illegal is communication for the purpose of prostitution. I suppose the logic was that if you can't communicate / negotiate for something you can't actually do it. At least, such communication in public areas is illegal. You follow?

In private businesses, however, it is legal. Such communication is allowed, as by definition a private business is not public property. Such communication is usually limited to euphemisms such as "full service". The back page of the newspaper is full of advertisements for "adult massage" parlours, "adult studios" and "spas" that have no spa equipment whatsoever. Web sites abound. Log onto such websites and you'll see all sorts of scantily clad women talking about "GFE", "Greek", and other such nonsense. The law turns a blind eye to such things as they are not blatantly overt. However, when one of the most popular studios in Edmonton started displaying pictures of their staff in the altogether, the Law cracked down (pun definitely intended.) That degree of blatant promotion of sexual services was not to be tolerated, and the studio had to backpedal quickly and remove the offending pictures. Rather an arbitrary line, IMHO, but I suppose a line must be drawn somewhere.

As for the legal brothels, I am sure that they have regulations on how overt their advertising can be. Other jurisdictions that do not have legal brothels may have rules on their advertising across jurisdictional lines.

As for the girl who started this charming thread, she is a fool, and a textbook definition of a money grubbing slut. But, it would appear that under the laws of her jurisdiction, she is not committing a crime. IMHO, though, what she is doing is highly immoral.

 

Three words: Illegal Gambling Permit.

 

I couldn't disagree more, actually.

Is she foolish? Perhaps. But how many girls have you met who in their lives either regret their first time or remember it as decidedly unspectacular? I don't know about you, but that describes almost every girl I know. This girl is losing hers on her terms and getting a substantial investment in her future out of it. She's absolutely right about one thing: she's offering a valuable commodity that people are (obviously) willing to pay top-dollar for, and she's being selective about the "winner." This girl is the human embodiment of capitalism. She may be a lot of things - cynical, jaded, opportunistic - but dumb ain't one of 'em. Which brings me to...

Is she money-grubbing? Only if you think all capitalists are money-grubbing. Besides, this is a one-time offer. She's not trying to be a trophy wife for some fat-cat. THAT'S a money-grubber. She's doing this to pay for college. How many trophy-wives do that?

Is she a slut? In no way shape or form. She is currently a virgin, and will be until she "seals the deal." This transaction of hers is only possible because she's the opposite of a slut.

My only caveats are 1) like dmc, if this were MY daughter, she'd be dead, and 2) I have serious concerns that she'll inspire an army of copycats. Aside from that, personally, I say more power to her. She's obviously weighed the pros and cons of being labeled "that e-bay slut" for the rest of her life, and decided the transaction will be worth it.

 

Well...

 

You know, when my wife was pregnant, I hoped that we would have a son. And facing my adolscent daughter's sexuality was certainly among my reasons for this. Placing her virginity up for auction would absolutely take me over the edge. I'm glad I had a son... Not that I'm suggesting I think it would be OK for my son to pay for a virgin or anything like that, I'm just saying I would definitely not approve of my daughter doing the selling, even though I do think it's legal.

I disagree. I think a great many women would have a lot of reservations about entering into such a transaction for moral, ethical, religious, and rational reasons (and those are not mutually exclusive). That says nothing about the familial issues that would inevitably ensue. But there is a far more practical reason why you won't see copycats: There's no way you could enter into such a business transaction unless you were at least 18, and a fair number of girls aren't still virgins when they turn into women on their 18th birthday. At least, unless the sexual practices of teenagers have shifted dramatically more conservative since I was a teen, the terms "sexy" and "still a virgin at 18" are rarely used to describe the same person.

 

Aldeth,

I guess my concern is more along the lines that this will set some kind of sociological precedent, and some young girls will now see this as a less ethical reason to maintain their virginity. Not to stay "pure," not to save it for marriage, not to simply be smart and avoid pregnancy or spooky diseases, but in fact to auction themselves off when they turn 18 as the underlying goal.

I don't think this will happen en masse, of course. But enough may do it to cause a stir. It may, in some sick way, become fashionable. Some girls may even become competitive at it. Some girls may consider fetching a six-figure pricetag for their virginity a sexual badge of honor, in the same way girls of the previous generation sought the status of "Playboy Playmate," and the echelons of "hotness" therein. E.g., a 'Playmate of the Month' is hotter than a just regular Playmate, and Playmate of the Year is hottest of all, etc.; A six-figure virgin is "like, so totally hotter" than a girl only managed a measly $80 grand...

You get the idea.

 

Transaction being worth it doesn't make it less of a prostitution deal. It's not only prostitution when it's not worth it. I refuse to throw names at the person, but the act is no way commendable or even normal or even excusable. You are right that it is an embodiment of capitalism in some way - and I have to add, a sad way.

She doesn't know what she's doing, either. Imagine trying to be a university professor, a lawyer, an engineer, a politician, a medical doctor or something else of the kind, while people remember you for selling your virginity online, which is something you want to forget as well.

One of the faults of capitalism is making everything into a commodity, which is wrong and immoral. There's nothing new in prostitution, but at least in the old times not everything was an object of trade. Not so much so these days.

 

Exactly. It's pretty much a valueless system. That's not to say that values can't be brought into it from an outside system, like religion. Did I say religion? OH NO! Flame suit on.

 

In economics terms she is not foolish or stupid. But there's more to life than money. Even in a non-religious sense what she is doing is foolish. The mental and emotional consequences of selling something so personal will be difficult for her to reconcile, and she should know that.

As for the slut comment, I stand buy it. My usage of the word is a woman who uses sex, coldly and without emotion, as a way to achieve her goals . I realize that most people use the word for a promiscuous person. My bad.

Money grubbing? I'll stand by that one as well. There are acceptable lengths to go to make money, even in a capitalistic society. Stepping outside those norms of decency makes one a money grubber in my book, even if it is a one time offer.

 

No, not really. The economic meltdown proved that greed and selfishness is the "endgame" to capitalism.

 

can we prove she's a virgin?

 

It's all well and good to say capitalism sucks, but how much did we spend on our shiny computers?

Getting back to the topic, you can't even tell if some women are virgins. Wiki:

On a more sinister note:

So she might just be a really shrewed businesswoman, or a prostitute making a big publicity stunt.

My opinion? If she's a prostitute, then this kind of stuff is understandable. If she's not, however, then she's an idiot and someone needs to open her eyes to people who are forced into prostitution.

 

True, but she's not doing it for the money - not in the end anyway. The goal is not the money itself, but the future and opportunity the money will afford her. So her motives can't be written off as entirely material. She's not going to go out and buy an Aston Martin, for example (though time will tell on this one).

This assumes she has the same value system you do, or that she will ever consider what she did to be wrong or harmful to her in any way. Two big assumptions on your part and, again, time will tell. For all we know, she may go on to a brilliant and lucrative career and look back on this in 20, 40 years from now as the best thing she ever did for herself.

True, but again - that's your book, not hers. As we've discussed at length before, your sense of what is "decent" and "acceptable" is not universal. She isn't asking for anyone's approval for what she's doing (outside of the legal sense, that is) and her decision affects no one but herself. Your (or anyone else's) judgment on the rightness or wrongness of this act isn't really relevant to anyone but those passing the judgment.

Ooh, Deathmage brings up a good point here:

This is true. I will admit she's being remarkably insensitive to / making a mockery of the plight of those forced into prostitution. This is one aspect she may come to regret later on.

 

The more I think about this, the more confusing it becomes. If she's using this to pay for her graduate degree, she's assuming she's going to make thousands, if not tens of thousands of dollars for this. Is she receiving training for this at the Bunny Ranch? I mean, what guy would spend tens of thousands of dollars for sex with someone who presumably doesn't know the first thing about having great sex (assuming she is a virgin). Unless prostitution is different from every other prosfession, I don't get it.

Would you pay more money for a surgeon who had never performed a surgury before? Or more money for a lawyer who was about to appear in court for the first time? I can do my job better now than when I first started. I imagine that it's like just about anything else - you would get better at this with some experience.

Of course, the only way she can get experience would cause her to cease being a virgin. So I guess the big question is, what's the big deal of being the first guy to put one through her? I have had sex with women who were virgins (I guess technically one of them was still a girl as we were both in high school), and I have to say that those encounters do not rank among the most satisfying sexual enounters I've had in my life. In fact, they aren't even close. And they were pretty messy. And in one case in particular it was a very unpleasant experience for her.

I guess the last point I'd like to make is I always assumed that a woman losing her virginity was primarily a big deal for the woman. I didn't think it was still a huge deal for the guy. It certianly wasn't on my list of things I was looking for in a potential wife when I was single. I know that there is still a level of mysogynism in modern western societies, but to think that the archaic notion that a virgin is somehow more valuable than a non-virgin, and that this mindset is still prevalent enough for this woman to make an absurd amount of money selling her virginity is surprising.

It goes without saying that the roles are never reversed. No woman would find a guy who never had sex before more attactive simply because he was a virgin. In fact, she would probably prefer that the guy had some idea of what he was doing down there! (Of course, I said the same thing about men wanting their women more experienced, but this case proves that isn't necessarily true, so maybe I'm wrong on this one too. Do women place more value to a potential mate who is a virgin?)

 

some women do, my wife hates the fact that I had sex with other women before her.

 

That's because 99% of women hate 99% of all other women. All women hate all the ex girfriends you had before them. But that's because women become overly competitive when it comes to getting a man, and they are mad that someone got to you before they did. They don't even like ex-gfs if you didn't have sex with them! They hate the fact that there might have been a long since past emotional connection between you and someone else.

That said, I don't think women specifically value men's virginity. With some men evidently, it's all about that. They don't care that this woman probably had emotional involvement with other men - the fact that she didn't have sex with them is all that is important.

Here's the main reason why I responded, as I thought of something else. Most women I knew in high school who chose to remain virgins did so for religious reasons, which is fine. That obviously isn't the case with this woman who is willing to do it for money. It suggests that she saw something wrong with sex or bad about having sex from a non-religious viewpoint, and if true, that would be the first time I've encountered something like this.

 

Some women like the idea of having a guy they can 'train up' to be great for them and them alone. Others feel self concsious about being compared to previous women and some women save themselves for the perfect guy and feel affronted when he didn't do the same (perfect girl in this instance )

Likewise some men like the more dominant aspect of being the experienced party and being able to claim what no other man can.

The roles, of course, can always be reversed.

Also experience does not neccessarily mean better in bed

[Edit, got sniped!]
I'm hoping that was tongue in cheek
Certainly around here and in my friendship circles the women have no trouble with exes unless it's personal issues between them - there is no inherent dislike simply because they got the guy before them and any woman who has such jealousy issues that emotional involvement before them is a problem needs to get over themselves! It's a ridiculous notion, it's like getting jealous a boyfriend spends time with friends or family. You can't be the centre of his attention all the time and you can never be that good a girlfriend if you demand to suck his soul dry by denying him any other form of relationship, romantic or otherwise

Not that I get annoyed by women like that or anything

 

Aldeth, prostitution is precisely different from any other job or most of them. This connects with sex not being a commodity.