Death to Free Speech in the Netherlands

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Homeschooling here in the states has to follow the same curriculum as public schools but provides much more intensive learning potential as there are only 1-5 students per teacher instead of 20-40 per teacher.
Yes there is more religion taught but that is the parents right, even if the child went to public school.
Also homeschoolers regularly outtest puiblic schoolstudents by a fairly significant margin.

 

This couldn't be further from the truth. The two top reasons I hear of for home schooling are:
1.) better education (and this seems to be backed up by statistics)
2.) less exposure to violence (I don't know any specific statistics, but I'd bet it's true here, too)

On top of that, here in the US at least, teachers teaching liberal values as scientific fact, disciplining students for questioning outdated information, and ignoring school bullying and violence are not exactly a rarity.

 

This, of course, assumes the "teacher" is competant. Just as in school, different teachers have different strengths. There are some communities fo home schooling netowrks which work very well (taking advantage of individual strengths to give a complete education); however, their is a huge portion of home schooled childred who are severely behind their public schooled contempories especially in science (and the US public schools aren't exactly stellar there as well).

One other portion of public or private school is social interactions. I have seen many kids coming from home school environments with extremely poor social skills. One of the main jobs of schooling is to teach children how to conform to expected norms.

 

This doesn't live up to the statistics I've heard, T2. The majority of homeschooled children test at grades higher than their contemporaries in public school, even in math and sciences.

This does live up to statistics. Homeschooled children are far more likely to have trouble adjusting to life in society. These problems usually manifest when they go from home schooling to public/private schooling, or when they go to college. These days, many home schooling networks attempt to foster social interaction between the students in the network, and parents are frequently advised to send children to summer camps and the like. It will be some years before we know how effective that will be.

 

The socialization aspect of schools is incredibly important. One of the top 5 <unprintables> I ever met was a home schooled fellow from Alaska. What a complete tool. I have never seen such arrogance, intolerance, pigheadeness, and just general social maladjustment in any other human being. Now likely he would have been a tool even had he been educated in a more social setting, but I firmly believe that his home schooling contributed to his toolishness.

 

Just my observations as a scientist and talking to kids who were home schooled.

 

Don't forget that most homeschoolers take band & athletics at public schools.
I have 2 neices & a nephew that were home-schooled & they all played instruments & baseball &/or basketball.
So they are getting social interaction.

Now, as T2 said, it all depends on the teacher.

 

And that is the crux of the argument -- if a parent is fairly well educated themselves, AND a good teacher, then of course home schooling is a great way to go. But if either of those two qualities are lacking, then the kids are hooped.

That's one area where public education has an edge -- children are exposed to not only a variety of peers but a variety of teaching styles. Granted, some teachers are tools, but even they teach the children how to deal with imbecilic management, which is a valuable skill in today's marketplace.

But I find myself agreeing with Joaqin (holy poop!) in that religious fanatics who home school their kids and do not fully cover the curriculum are really hurting their kids and also their cause.

 

I think that's my biggest beef with home schooling. By the time kids are in middle school, they are taught subjects by different teachers who have expertise in a specific field. (You are taught geometry by a Math teacher, Shakespeare by an English teacher, etc.) Most parents don't have such expertise in anything, much less everything.

I have no intentions of home schooling my son, and my wife (before she transitioned to being a stay at home mom) was an elementary school teacher. And I think that says all there is to say. If one of the parents is an actual teacher, and they feel that they lack the expertise needed to properly educate their child, what does that say about children of parents who are NOT teachers, and what kind of job they will do?

 

I don't know if this has ever been done or not, but I see this as an oppertunity for localized home schooling networks to expand. If each parent teaches a single course or two, depending on their expertice and abilities, to all the children in the network, then children can still get a wide variety of teachers capable in a wide variety of subjects. If every parent in the network is required to 'donate' one class-hour a week, or a day, or whatever is needed for that particular network, then class sizes should even remain fairly small (maybe 4-10 per teacher instead of 1-3).

 

NOG isnt what you are describing already in existance and is called public schools?

 

The public schools are what I'm describing gone horribly wrong. You can also say what I'm describing is private schools, which would be closer to the truth. In reality, what I'm describing would form a half-way point between those two and home schooling, providing many of the advantages of both, with only a few of the disadvantages.

 

The only problem I see with that is that most adults aren't qualified to teach anything to children - at least nothing nearly as well as someone who is professionally trained to teach children.

 

You'd be surprised at how lousy some of those professionally trained teachers can be!

NOG, your idea has merit, but I can see it degenerating into a Mongolian Cluster Hump right quick -- gossip, backstabbing, etc, etc. Many home schooling parents would want to push their own peculiar agendas upon others -- it would be a constant struggle and I can see it melting into a morass.

I know that the public system has some serious flaws, but it does have some safeguards in place, and it can turn out some really well educated people -- don't let the hyperbole skew your senses. In the places that the education system is really dysfunctional, I'd hazard that the entire community is experiencing serious troubles, and laying it all on the schools to fix it is both unfair and highly unrealistic.

 

I see too many parents who believe this completely and so do nothing to teach their children. Every parent should be the primary teacher for their own children. Schools just round out the education.

 

Seeing as I am actually a teacher, certified and everything (would you believe) I should chime in even if it is detrimental to my own point of view. At least around here and I doubt it is different anywhere the education for teachers is just plain horrible. I mean, it is worthless. I didn't learn jack poop about teaching. My factual knowledge about my subjects is quite ok but that I learnt by taking the same classes anyone studying those subjects would take but the actual teaching classes were craptastic. I have talked with teachers up to the age of 70 and it seems they share that view. The people populating the teaching faculties no the different colleges and universities struck me to be a rather homogenous group of failed "real" teachers. People who just couldn't cut it out in the "real" school. I am basically basing my own teaching style on what I learnt when I myself was in school and the teachers who taught me, nothing I learnt during the time I studied for my teacher's certificate.

The only way I am more qualified at teaching than any other joe is that I actually have a decent grasp of my two subjects the rest is just pure personality and traits I got long before I started studying. The colleges do not even weed out the people who are blatantly unfit for teaching, at least not here I took classes with some people who really didn't have what it takes to be a teacher on any level. Oh well, as you can see I am still rather upset at the rather poor education I got which basically forces every teacher to figure things out for themselves and through trial and error with pupils as guinea pigs. Hey, at least that worthless piece of paper gives me job ahead of other guys without it even if they might have the exact same knowledge I do and the so called "teaching knowledge" I am supposed to have is pure baloney.

 

I have to say I don't see a single reason to homeschool children and fully agree with the current national policy not allowing it. I have no complaints about the quality of teaching, and if it's bad I allways have the opportunity to move my children to another school or complementing their teachings myself.

I definently don't agree that doing sports or playing instruments is enough to get the social competence in the real world. Public schools often offer a cross-section of the society which private schools or homeschools and not even most hobbies can provide. I feel it's an important way of removing prejudice and increasing national solidarity early on. It also introduces them to many unfortunate facts about the world. Like the one that you're not the center of the universe and there will be people who won't like you and will be downright mean to you. While not very pleasant lessons I find these very necessary.

 

Joacqin, it's the same here. Hell, for substitute teaching, there aren't really even any qualifications. I think you can't be a registered sex offender (I hope), but that's about it. My brothers doing it now. Of course, he's great with kids, very intelligent, and has already earned one Master's degree and is working on a second towards a Doctorate, but he's an extreme exception.

Morgoroth, I don't know squat about schools over there, so I don't know if our reasons have any correlation there or not, but education isn't the only reason.

As for socialization, environmental exposure isn't even a fraction of the issue. The real issue is engagement in that environment. Public school can be just as insular as any homeschooling program, and just involvement in one sport can lead to a wide bredth of social experience. I know, I've seen both myself.

 

You don't have any brothers or sisters do you?
The people that can be the meanest to you are family.


**edit**
New item of the day
http://www.learnaboutguns.com/2009/03/17/anti-gun-indoctrination-in-a-lombard-il-school/

I guess having a balanced discussion is too much to hope for.