Silvery's dumb questions about America

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Are there names for peoples from other parts of the US? I've yet to see an East/West references, though there had to be some - what with the East being the first settled part and all. Or is it more of a state-by-state thing?

 

When my Dad was in the RCAF during the Second World War, the RAF officers frequently referred to all Canadian and American units as "colonials". Dad didn't like it very much.

 

Good Lord, the Civil War raises its ugly head again.

Damnyank (one word) is an insult. Yankee technically applies to the New England people. Southerner applies to anyone born south of the Mason-Dixon line except Florida. Deep South I'm not sure of but believe it applies to Georgia, Arkansas and Alabama. Maybe the Carolinas. West Virginia was the part of Virginia that decided to stay with the North. Kentucky also choose to stay with the North. Tennessee went South.

After taking a look at this thread I don't understand how anyone from another country can consider us a homogeneous bunch of people. We still have our regional differences and of course my region is the best.

After reading the posts here I have come to a decision. Call me anything you like but be sure to feed me.

 

Montresor, you got me! Hokay, feed me and spell it correctly.

 

LOL, My dad's family crashed on the Florida coast in the 1800's, mom's family came to Florida from Alabama & Illinois.
I was born here, raised here. and still live here. I don't plan on leaving.

Really, Florida is its own odd entity.

 

Florida is the only place in America where I was not understood more often than understood. Walking into subway and everyone is speaking Spanish.

Talking about these old references to the revolution (the colonist term, etc) and the civil war, one of the strangest things I found in the South is driving down the street and seeing the confederate flag flying everywhere - more so than the national flag.. Surely that was way to long ago to really be of any relevance these days.

 

A lot of Southerners still fly confederate flags because they are still concerned about state's rights (which is what the civil war was really about... slavery was NOT the main issue, because even in the North they did not hate slavery enough to get in a war over it.).

 

Yes, some people who lived in the North did hate it quite a bit. Two of its most famous detractors were Ben Franklin and Alexander Hamilton. But Henry David Thoreau was imprisoned because he refused to pay taxes for any government in which slavery was legal. The Quakers despised it and they were hated for it by the Southern politicians. But the Quakers have never "hated anything enough to go to war," since they believe that Christ meant what He said.

I took a class devoted entirely to the Civil War, and since it was here in Texas, of course it had some of those good ole' "State's Rights Boys" in it. They started that line about slavery not being the cause of the Civil War, which the prof listened to very patiently (I'm not saying you are one of those good ole' boys personally, Saber). At the end of their ranting (about how the South was just a victim of everything evil the "Yankees" had ever devised), he very calmly asked them to explain how "the Civil War would ever have happened without the issue of slavery." Needless to say, they were not very successful. The prof knew his subject and I'll never forget how well he taught that class.

 

OK, I now get the whole yankee thing. However, I'm now confused with how Americans look at geography! In England we have the North, the Midlands and the South but looking at these posts it looks like some states that I thought were north are south and vice versa.

Is it just because America is so wide?

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Census_Regions_and_Divisions.PNG

This is as good as anything that I can find right away to help explain. Maryland and Delaware are not traditional Southern states, but outside of that I think it is good.

As for the different regions, most of that can be linked to slavery (I'm being very basic/brief). The North-Eastern states were non slave states, while the Southern states had slaves. The nation did not fully expand until later, and that is when the Midwest and West came into play... after North and South were already established.

Like I said, basic explanation.

 

Chicken, that pic explains it perfectly...

Just make sure you notice that bold line dividing in the "Mountain West" from the "Pacific West". Now if only California could break away to go hang out with Hawaii....Alaska can come too...

 

So am I right in thinking that the south only refers to the south east? Or am I not looking at the picture right?

 

There are Sub-sections. 'South East' and 'South West' are under the 'South' category.

 

Touche, Chandos, haha.

While it is true that many famous people hated slavery, there is no way they could have convinced the Northern population to go to war over it. There was still huge amounts of discrimination in the North, as well as Northerners who helped return ex-slaves back to the South (those people were not a majority in any way, of course). But Abraham Lincoln initially did NOT want to get rid of slavery because he knew that the South would never willingly stay a part of the U.S. if the abolished it. It was only until part way through the war that he changed his mind and decided to go for abolition.

That being said, I did not take a course as in depth as you, so I will admit that I am most certainly NOT an expert on the Civil war, and would love to study it more. Those are just my impressions from taking a few American History courses. So, I will take your word for it that it was not all a State's right's issue, although I don't think anyone can say that the South was only fighting for slavery.

 

Silvery: When referring to "the North" and "the South" most Americans are refering exclusively to states of the Union Army and Confederate Army respectively. So, yes, "the South" generally means the southeast. "The North" generally means New England along with New York and Pennsylvania.

We also have the Midwest -- which is primarily all states directly above Texas.

The Southwest is mainly the four corners states (Arizona, New Mexico and parts of Utah and Colorado) and Nevada.

The Northwest is Oregon, Washington, and parts of Idaho.

California is sometimes part of the Southwest. At the entire dismay of the other Southwestern states.

Florida is sometimes part of the South, but too many Northerners have retired there to be fully accepted anymore.

Texas is sometimes part of the South, sometimes part of the Southwest. But generally, Texans think of themselves as being in their own mini-country and are graciously allowing the United States to be associated with Texas.

 

T2 - Somtimes they admit "Jersey" as well. Although I think most New Englanders consider it the "sticks."

 

Dude, anything below Connecticut is the deep south for us Massachusetters.

 

The upper midwest was part of the North in the Civil War (as was California) but sometimes we are forgotten as the war generally wasn't fought around us. Missouri is a bit different there. Also I took a class on the Civil War when I was an undergrad and sometimes find myself arguing the South started the Civil War over slavery. The New England North was all slaves states at one time and the North as a whole had bigotry. But the practice of slavery was gradually gotten rid of as various parts of the west were settled. The slave owning south was afraid that as new states joined they would be anti-slave and thus a balance that had evolved between slave and free states would end. Thus it is when Lincoln won many slave states decided to become the Confederacy and later you have the Civil War. What Lincoln declared for politically was no slavery in the territories that were being settled. He knew he couldn't easily end it where it had existed for years and still did (when he ran for president) but he could prevent its spread. Pro-Slavery leaders were worried over time this would curtail their power in Congress.

And one thing many don't know is that some Confederate higher ups (both before and during the time of the Confederacy) were thinking about cutting a slave owning empire out of Latin America (those parts within reach).

A great many Southerners didn't own slaves. However they supported it because it gave them a higher place in the social hierarchy than the bottom and it was so important to the economy of the South that many (in some fashion) had business dealings with plantations. Thus it was an accepted part of the economy there while the Northern economy headed a different direction. In spite of the presence of New York bankers some of the wealthiest people in the US pre-Civil War were South Carolina plantation owners. Slavery was viewed as a state's right and not just that but a vital economic practice in some places.

There is a book called Confederates in the Attic (or something similar) that I found to be quite funny but was actually written by a thoughtful person who went around the US trying to get people's take on the Civil War. I think his book implies that one of the unsettled things after the Civil War was why it took place in the first place. One of the comments I remembered was from a deep southerner who said that if the Civil War occurred today he would have fought in it as a Confederate. He didn't approve of either dividing the nation or slavery morally but he felt he would have been compelled given the fact that the other people fighting would have been his friends and neighbors. Which begs the question, if the cause is immoral but your friends support it who do you back.... morality or your friends (there are alot of people that would find that to be a tough call.)


Oh, a few surprises from the time period. Southerners (of the time, maybe not today but of the time) supported state over federal laws except when free states tried to nullify the fugitive slave laws. The federal government was against succession except with West Virginia which felt it was treated unfairly by the rest of the state but couldn't do anything about it until the Union army provided protection/cover for a poll on if the area should stay part of Virginia (note by letting the breakaway happen the Union army helped strengthen the protection of Washington DC). Thus the lasting succession attempt from the Civil War time period is one protected by the North.


On geography (the starting topic).

The upper midwest includes Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin (yeah), Michigan, and a certain state sometimes known for the number of governors headed to or in jail. Not sure if Indiana or Ohio really count as part of it or not.

 

In fact, one of the most famous brigades, the Iron Brigade, "The Black Hats," consisted of members from that region:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Brigade

Nice post, btw.