High school memories

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Something DR said in the back door thread got me thinking.

High school had its ups for me but it was also an extremely difficult time for me because I was not one of the "in" crowd. I walked very softly so as not to attract the ire of the popular kids, because if I had life would have been made a living hell for me. But I felt alone a lot of the time, sometimes I couldn't help but get in the way of the a******s and got publicly humiliated, and of course despite many efforts I never got the girls I wanted.

What are some of your less than fond memories of high school? I'm placing this thread here because it is not for people to recount present trials (random school venting thread) but rather to reminisce, and also to make suggestions as to how we as a society could make the experience better for those presently there.

 

I am often surprised at how accurate the high school movies seem to depict the North American high school experience. I can't say it was like that for me. It was something similar during my year 7 and 9 (ages 13-15) with the cliqueing and whatnot. I never had any problems really, tended to be somewhat of a social chameleon. Whatever person or group I wanted to hang out with I did. One weekend I could be at a party with "popular" jocks, the next trying to play D&D with some ultra nerds and the third going to another party with the "tough" crowd. In upper secondary school the factions had mostly melted away partly because everyone had went to different schools and partly I think because people grew up.

 

Well, I was a skinny, pimply, nearsighted, nerdy, smart (and smart-mouthed), and socially inept teenager with bad teeth – not exactly a prime candidate for winning a teenage popularity contest. Actually, junior high (grades 7 to 9) were worse than high school – I was bullied and teased, and didn’t have many friends. By high school, I had sort of come to terms with my lot in life, and the other kids more or less left me alone, but it still wasn’t what I would call a happy time of my life. Throughout, girlfriends were something that other people had. I remember somehow once getting an invitation to a party; a group of people started a game of spin-the-bottle, and one of the guys coaxed me into joining in – the game came to an abrupt end when one the girls spun the bottle, it pointed to me, and she decided she didn’t want to play anymore. That was a big ego boost.

Things improved considerably when I went to university – probably because I didn’t know most of the people there, and so I was able to “start over” to some extent.

Last year my high school had a reunion – three guesses as to whether I went.

Somehow, I think this is going to do some damage to my super-cool reputation here at SP.

 

My days in secondary school are best left forgotten

 

Youth and growing up is a wildly different journey into consciousness for many people. These differences cause the aggressive ones to assert their presence, and this is our first example of violence, intimidation and strength in society. Groups/gangs is the inevitable response to this, and individuals that haven't got a group to fall back on, are singled out.
Being half-and-half, I was always seen as a foreign kid, whether I went to school in Holland or Scotland. So I always got a fair bit of bullying, because I never belonged to any group in school. An advantage was, that whenever a new kid came into the class, they were always seated next to me, and got to know me a bit. So whenever a new kid had become popular, they tried to bully me, but I just gave them one look like: "are you serious?!" and they quickly stopped. After some years, most of the kids in the class had been newbies at some point, so that way, most of them actively avoided bullying me.

So, what can we do to make the whole school experience better?
Doesn't it teach us valuable lessons about group behaviour, and its undesirable consequences? Why would we want to change it? People who have been extracted from this child-culture, have missed important experiences in their youth, and risk becoming socially weak in life. The worst part about schools, are the shootings:

School shootings are committed mostly by people who couldn't get over the fact that they were bullied when young, and don't understand that they should try to move on, and concentrate on growing up. This is a subtle process that emerges when people become teenagers, and people who develop their individuality are granted respect by those smart enough to recognize it. School shooters are introduced to this process in the wrong way, somehow, and revolt against it. They refuse to accept that their old classmates and bullies are growing up, and take offense at being seen as childish because it still occupies their thoughts.

I don't think that school can be made into a more enjoyable experience for kids, because even the unpleasant experiences are part of the education. But we can try to prevent the violence from going too far. Instead of kicking kids out of schools for acts of violence (meaning: find another school for your kid), we could make special schools for violent kids, where they are ordered to be sent to by law. As for shootings: Once we know exactly what troubles these kids, perhaps we can find a way to prevent it. I think it would be something like: Introducing everybody to the principle of growing up in a positive way, and encouraging them to do so. If kids are still hung up on their old bullies, then they need adequate counseling.

It was always funny when (old) bullies befell some kind of misfortune, wasn't it? Nobody would laugh with you, and if you laughed out loud, you might get beat up. I remember our main class bully was the first and worst kid to get acne, and suddenly he was demoted to being the quiet, contemplative, shy kid. With a latent affinity to bullying. He still had connections, but he knew he had to be very careful not to wear them out - I enjoyed competing with him for friendships and acceptance. If I missed out, nothing lost for me, and if he won over our friends at my expense, there was basically nothing gained for him, just status quo. He must've been really angry with himself, in a how-the-mighty-have-fallen kinda way.

In the final years of high school, bullying had gotten out-of-date, and I had gained some basic acceptance and respect. A few girls even started showing interest in me (I was tall, but not that skinny anymore), but I didn't really know how to respond to them back then. And when a girl who used to bully me, suddenly wanted to date me, I didn't feel in any way obliged to not publically humiliate her. I chose the direct way: rejection, because I didn't feel like showing affection, and dumping afterwards.

I'm contradicting myself in a way, becuase I say we should move on and grow up, but I'm opposed to forgiving and forgetting. As long as it doesn't hamper you in terms of job opportunities and such, you should never forget what people did to you in the past. They may never be punished, but they've definitely blown it as far as you're concerned. It's alright to stay a bit mad, but not too mad.

In european universities we don't have the extreme in-crowds of sororities and fraternities, but we do have clubs and stuff. I refused to be a member of any club, because I was still aware of it being the source-of and protection-against bullying. I was surprised how many supposedly intellectual people were taking part in these things.

 

Coin, I don't think you understand the origin of school shooters, and I think there's one important thing you misunderstand about those bullies. They didn't grow up and they didn't stop, at least not for me. I was in a group in elementry school, up until I was 9 years old, when we moved. That cut me out of my group and I never found another. From 4th grade to 11th, I was a loner. There were a couple of other guys, really a couple, that I hung out with from time to time, on fringes of groups, but no real friends. Needless to say, there were no girlfriends. I was bullied all the time. Not too much in elementary, just isolated there, but really bad in middle and pretty bad in high school.

Coin, shooters are the ones for whom it doesn't end. I know because I almost became one myself. I looked back and I saw my entire life since I moved as alone and mostly in fear. I looked forward and I saw no evidence that it would change. I didn't believe even college would be different, and to a small degree I was right (though I could handle it by then). At the time, I saw no reasonable end to my suffering, and the compiled effect had led me to severe depression. At several points I tried to end my life, though that was later (10th grade). As I once said on a similar topic, I'll bet there are a LOT more kids that kill themselves instead of becoming homocidal. It's a close line, believe me.

As for my experiences, needless to say, they were unpleasant in the extreme, and more than a few were physical. I have said it before and I will say it again, some of the things that get 'talkings to' in high school would get people years in prison just 4 years later. Tell me if this makes sense to you.

 

I can relate a great deal, since I left Scotland and moved to Holland when I was 9 too. I was always an outcast back then, made worse by me needing to re-learn the language. Making language errors gets you a reputation as stupid as well.
My response to this situation must have been different. I think what I did, was learn to rely on myself, since interaction with others at the time only gave me grief. My mom wondered if I was autistic or something, since I was happiest when alone, and couldn't get along with other kids. I was perfectly happy playing with myself, alone in my room. 'Playing with myself' meant in the literal not figurative sense. Back then at least. I turned inwards, but wasn't hostile towards any positive interaction. I got a few friends eventually, who gave me a little respect, even though they poked fun at me now and then. Being bullied influenced my personality, of course. Nowadays I like working night shifts, and don't mind that there's nothing happening and no-one to talk with. As for girls, I had no long-term relationships yet, but I think I might be able to have one. My preference for asian girls *might* have something to do with that I rarely saw any at school, and I don't associate them with stupidity, smoking, gangs, or childish antisocial behaviour. I try to be wary of any group behaviour in society too, and if there are bad effects or victims, I'll consciously oppose it.

I guess I just put up a brave face, and didn't give them any satisfaction when they bullied me. Now I'm just guessing why your experience was so much worse, but I think that you came over as visibly affected by their bullying, or needy, or overly emotional. That would explain why they kept bullying you, why it affected you so badly, and why you had trouble making friends. Remember, I'm just speculating, because I don't know how bad your bullying was. For example, I was almost never beaten up, so I don't know if that makes the feeling worse than just psychomanipulation. If you mean you were attacked for years on end, then that's a different story. Assault is assault, whether it's comitted by a minor or not. If you were intimidated into not telling on them, then you made the wrong choice. Maybe you didn't get enough support, or didn't ask for help when the situation got out of hand.

 

My high school experience was great, and it tends to make me sad when I see that it was not so for everyone else. I think the major contributing factor to this was that I grew up in a small town and my high school only had about 32 people in my graduating class. Once you throw in the 7-12 years (seven for the kids from the neighboring town who joined for middle school, and twelve for the same town) that you spent with your classmates we all became very close. That I guess was the reputation of my class, that there was nobody who really did not like each other. As some might say, we were tight. The school as a whole had no real clique problems due to the low numbers. Sports had a no-cut policy and the same kids who starred for varsity sports were often the knowledge bowl participants as well.

Individually I think I did the best job possible at enhancing this experience by spending time with everyone. I had a main group of friends (about half my class), but spent time around almost everyone in the school and made friendships that came to surprise me. The one thing that always kind of upset me was that I wasn't extremely close to anybody, but when I think about it, that allowed me to be friends with huge portion of the school. I hate to sound full of myself, but I'm fairly certain I was one of the more well-liked people around... if not the most.

Now if only I didn't go 1-5 from the FT line in a state tournament game... that we lost by 3

 

I wasn't diagnosed with Tourette Syndrome until I was 16, and coming from a small town, I stood out no matter where I went. The teachers never understood me, seeing signs that I was well above average in intelligence, but very little ability to apply myself. Students would pick out my tics and noises for their own amusement. When I was 1, I joined the Mormon faith, and in my Grade 11 year, there were a total of three of us in the whole school. To top it off, when I was in Grade 11, My mother went back to complete her high school education. She was in my Accounting class!

Unfortunately, that's teh stuff I remember, as opposed to most of the things I was supposed to learn...

 

Between variating periods of reclusion (including an era of complete withdrawal from my group of friends, aloofness, coldness and distance) and hell-raising such as arriving under the influence of both booze and MJ blatantly disrespecting those who pissed me off (including an instance of me on a bad morning throwing back an exercise book at a 24/7 POed teacher and flipping her off), and being barred from a French class for refusing to change my writing style to something more... readable (and spending each barred French class in detention... which I always foxed) I pretty much went my own way while not giving a damn what other people think. I was probably seen as a volatile ingredient to avoid at all costs.

I have a love/hate relationship with high school. Some of it was a fun era of bliss, during which I met the one who to this day still is my greatest love despite the circumstances, the other part was one of the lowest points of my life.

 

I dont have too many bad memories of highschool. At my first one people picked on me for a little while, then I got a lot bigger than all of them a lot sooner, and anyone that messed with me or my mates got the bash. At my second one I barely lasted 5 months there before being expelled for various illegal activities that involved me being taken to the police station. At my third highschool I had finally mellowed out and accepted who I was, and no unpleasant memories from there...just many pleasant green induced hazy memories...ah, those were the days...which is probably why I didnt leave until I was 21ish...without highschool diploma...hehe...

 

Wow, what you just described is similar to my own high school experiences. I was mercilessly picked on during the first couple of years of high school. During the later years I was left alone, but that didn't change the fact that I was a social outcast.

 

On the third-to-last day of school EVER, I got punched in the face by some random ******* for no reason whatsoever other than that he's an ass. After I reporter the incident, his goon underlings came up and threatened me a bit, giving me a brief glimpse to the DARK SIDE of school.

The kid later got expelled, as he apparently sent some other kid to hospital that afternoon. But it was still amusing, nonetheless - I would have gone through High School without even seeing a detention form except for a random act of violence.

 

High school was a wonderful break from my home life.

Yeah, I was picked on a bit, but it wasn't a big deal. I didn't belong to any group but was considered a geek. I'd been raised by my mom and had two sisters (no brothers) for most of my childhood so I wasn't very shy around girls; I could talk naturally to them, joke with them and was willing to listen. But I was tiny, I started high school at 4'9" and 70 pounds -- I became all the girl's "little brother" (that was a bit frustrating). I honestly think I knew about 75% of the girls in my school (not bad for a school of 3,000). I really didn't care what the guys thought of me.

DM: I had a similar incident happen in my junior year. The #2 thug (2nd toughest guy in school) was standing next to me waiting for the bus when he just did a roundhouse into my chest. The blow knocked me back about two feet, but I stayed on my feet. I returned to my place in line without a flinch or any recognition anything had happened. The thug just stared at me and said, "Aren't you even going to say anything?"

I responded, "My dad hits me harder than that when he's in a good mood. I thought you were just fooling around."

Nobody ever picked on me again.

Splunge: If you're in the area it's very amusing to go. I went to my 20 year reunion. It was amazing to see how many of the jocks were obese. The number of people who live in the past (only wanting to talk about the football game they were the hero in). The girls who were constantly preening during school were downright scary. The most beautiful woman at my reunion had been a plain Jane in HS. Very few people recognized me -- I'm now 6'3" and weigh in at ~200 pounds. The look of shock on their faces when they realized who I was (especially the bullies) was amusing.

 

What kind of screwed up schools did you guys go to? This is highschool you are talking about? Kids between 14 and 17 or somesuch? Either the cultural differences are huge or I went through school with blindfolds over both eyes. Sure there were bullying and some people were more popular than others but not on a scale even close the picture you guys are painting. Are the schools bigger? When I talk about my "highschool" I talk pretty much about the ecquivalent of the American junior high and my school was pretty big by Swedish standards, around 400-500 pupils but maybe that is small by other countries standards and size makes a difference? Or I might just have missed it all, as I said I was both apart and not. I was accepted in all the groups, had good friends ranging from snobby jocks, violent thugs to proper nerds maybe I didnt notice it because it never really happened to me except for the ADHD/ADD kids who did their best to bully anyone lest they themselves were targeted. I know of a few kids who were bullied quite relentlessly and that is bad in itself but reading what is written here you seem to be painting a picture where a third of all the pupils or something are bullied. Or is the sample just skewed as we are posting on a message board that caters to nerds?

I am a upper secondary school teacher myself now but can't really comment from that side of the fence as the pupils I have are either adults or what basically amounts to drop outs trying to get back into the school system and we have very small groups there so no real group bullying dynamics can develop. This year there is one girl that is being bullied quite a lot though, mostly behind her back with a lot of namecalling and whatnot and we the staff know about but I can tell you this, it is really really hard to fix. I can hear some retarded little kid refer to this girl as "the onion" that is what they call her and I ask him why he does that, if he thinks that is an ok thing to do and I just get a blank look back at me. The instigators have been talked to by the principal and the counsellor but it is now so firmly rooted that for most of the class this poor girl is now "the onion" it is her name. Now this is as I said a small class and there are no real cliques so despite she being frozen out in the class that part of it don't matter much. The biggest problem with bullying is that the bullies either do not know what it is they do or they see it as a conflict between two equal parts. I must say that I am a bit at a loss on how to handle it at least that subtle kind of bullying that leaves no marks. Idiots who run around and roundhouse kick people in the chest are easy to handle but the silent namecalling, the talk behind the back leaves me rather crestfallen.

As for a reunion, I would kinda love it especially my upper secondary class. Got mightily along with all of them. There were three people in it that were somewhat bullied but basically by one guy and they had more defenders than attackers and those three were *weird* I mean grade a weird. Most of the class felt that they were too weird to be targets and I think they had all been bullied in previous classes so they almost took the role of victim by default. They didnt have many friends but it wasn't so much that they were frozen out but that they were so odd that any attempt at contact just left you quite puzzled. Anyoo, I think it would be fun to go to a reunion, and not to show off who you are and gloat at all the failures but to meet old friends.

 

My secondary school, comprehensive school as we call it is ages 12 to 16 we leave school at 16 for college. It was a big school, pupils numbering somewhere at 1,700, far too many for the amount of teachers classes were minimum of 35 pupils, it became easy for teachers to ignore pupils and problems and simply focus on the popular kids.
though I did get on well with one teacher, never had him for a class, fraggle we called him, every lunch break he would use for a workout in the school multigym and I joined him every day as I had nothing else to do.
I was socially outcast through my entire time in school, but never picked on - my facination with learning martial arts and physical excersise sought to that.

 

Coin, there was some physical stuff, but I got more of that at home from my big brother. Of course, this prepared me to handle it at school. When you can (periodically) take down a kid three years older than you, twice your size, with three years of martial arts under his belt, and who is litterally trying to kill you, the class bully doesn't scare you that much. I didn't talk to anyone because the administrators didn't care about anything that wasn't blatent. Unfortunately, that and the fact that I refused to lower myself to their levels meant that I became the prime target for pranks. I was also singled out because I was the only outcast of all groups. In an intellectual school, I was called a geek even by the geeks. I did my best to not draw attention, but I didn't really know how. I never really learned a lot of social interactions that would have allowed me to blend in and disappear.

Joacqin, I'm guessing you just had blinders on. I know a few kids in my school who were like that. They never really encountered the depths of bullying that was going on around them, so they never saw it. I suspect it's too much of human nature to have not happened at your school, though. If there were more than 50 people in your class, I'd bet money someone got beat up from time to time.

The real problem isn't even the individual acts of bullying and namecalling. It's the prolongued social isolation that they cause. When you're in that situation for year after year after year, it builds up to some serious psychological stress. Modern day psychologists recognize such things in adults, and some military groups are using them as torture methods. The fact that these same activities in teens and pre-teens is seen as 'kids being kids' and 'normal' really worries me. The idea of the youth as inviolately innocent is, in itself, corrupt and dangerous. We're seeing the results.

 

Oh, I said there were a few kids who did get submitted to some violence. I remember one kid in particular who had a really rough time. The problem with him though that he himself was such a jerk, a liar and a thief (plenty of evidence) so sadly he received very little help or sympathy. He got chased around a lot and now in hindsight life must have been hell for him but at the time he was so unlikable that he had no allies. What I am reacting to is how systematic it was according to your descriptions. Of course **** happened but it was a small minority who bullied another small minority. Mostly it was 5-6 jerks who bullied a few poor victims. Now that not more people came to their aid is bad but if I remember correctly the bullies were not overly popular either. They were mostly treated in the same way you would treat a dangerous and feral animal.

When it comes to the social scene it is really hard to do something, it is impossible to force people to like each other and some have a real hard time making friends. I am fully of the opinion that it is never the fault of the victim but as I have argued in other threads we are essentially animals. And just as dogs and other animals can sense weakness so do we humans on a social level. If someone is projecting fear, weakness and uncertainty they will be singled out. As on most issues I think it needs to be adressed at a very young age, help kids with self esteem early on. Catch the bullies and the children who are a bit different early and help them both. I think the main reason I never had any problems (despite being overweight, reasonably smart, prone to solitude and nerdy pursuits) is that I never assumed I was inferior to anyone. I have gone through my life seeing myself as at least the equal to anyone I have ever met and I am sure that is an attitude people feel and react to. If I am convinced I belong and am their equal they will treat me like that. Heck, it even worked in the army and for most of the time I interacted on an equal level with my officers and to some I even took the dominant position. For me this attitude was so natural and I didn't even encounter the concept of "popular" until I was 11 years old or something when some kid from another school asked if I was "popular" in my school. It was never something I had even pondered, I was I and I played with who I wanted to play with and I went to the parties I wanted to go to I hadn't even pondered that some children were more popular than others and to some extent that is an attitude that has followed me my entire life.

 

Well duh.

That's a really good one. I can agree with this, I think it's why I had a fairly easy time with extensive bullying. I was never broken in spirit, and kids just got tired of trying. Everytime I stood headstrong against their psychological enslaught, I just ended up looking cooler for it!

One thing I noticed, is that I'm having difficulty placing people, and characterizing them when they were schoolchildren. The more details people add, the harder it gets. This has probably got to do with the fact that it's difficult to describe yourself. And having a classmate describe you is even worse, because they only report on your outward appearance and social status, with no insight into your true feelings.
As for your comment on social isolation, this is exactly the example I hold up to maintain that youths are not innocent. Children can be the most cruel and violent people you will ever meet. Because it is assumed that they have not yet been educated as to the consequences of their actions, they are given freedom to commit the most violent of crimes. Some of the things that minors do to eachother is too horrible to go into. Perhaps another reason we don't punish them as adults, when they commit these crimes, is because they appear cute, cuddly and defenseless. But often this is far from the truth. I'm always happy to hear when the courts decide to try a juvenile in court as an adult: Every time this happens, the courts are forced to reflect upon an age-old hypocrisy they are upholding to this day. It's just a matter of time before the legal system must be extensively changed to correct this. I understand that children need to learn stuff like 'stealing is wrong', but they should not be exempt from prosecution in murder, torture, rape, or other serious crimes. If they screwed up big time, before they got to learn the consequences of murder, for example, too bad. They should be punished accordingly all the same, even despite the wailings of injustice by disgruntled parents. It's nice that we 'think-of-the-children' and all that, but the courts are just overthinking about the children right now.
In a slight off-topic, on court hypocrisies, I'd also add that courts should get rid of the notion that mental patients should get treatment instead of punishment. It's such a big loophole in the legal system, that most murderers try to plead insanity, when their back is against the wall. Murderers aren't 'victims' of their psychosis. If they are not whole people, accountable for their actions, then it should be seen as punishing the psychosis rather than the person. If anything, mental patients should be given harsher treatment if there is a high risk of repeating their behaviour. They should be destroyed, just like a rabid, feral animal.

 

hell yeah