The big abortion rant thread.

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Oh, no, I was just following the actual logic of most family courts to it's natural conclusion concerning abortion and the father's choice. Since normally the family courts put no concern on fairness and all concern on the well being of the child, on this issue, it would be logical for them to put no concern on the fairness to either parent that didn't want the child and all concern on the ability of the parent that does to raise the child in a good condition. If that means the guy pays child support for 18 years because the girl forgot her birth control, so be it. If that means the girl is legally compelled to give birth and possibly pay child support for 18 years because the guy accidentally tore the condom, so be it. Their rights aren't the issue here. As for the women being treated as cattle, does that mean women who press for child support are treating the men as money-trees? Does it mean women who have abortions are treating their children like veil? Sorry, Chandos, but that knife cuts both ways.

As for adoption, as often as it's painted poorly in the media today (especially crime dramas) the truth is the statistics are very good. You're at much more risk being raised by a step-parent than you are being raised by adoptive parents.

 

Hello? Did you read my post regarding the issue of male child support in regards to a male who has no desire to be a father?

 

lets just say he wasnt welcomed back at the local, there are people like this, they feel wronged by the law, so they do it themselves.
I would feel wronged by the law under the same circumstances, but I cant say I would behave the same way in response.

I notice alot of people mentioning "the condom breaking" the condom doesnt have to break, they are only 96% effective at the best of times, and some experts claim that its actually significantly less then that.

 

I said nothing about legal, I only said risky. I admit that Drunk Driving is much riskier and more obvious in the danger, hence the legal status. The point is that you AGREED to take the risk, therefore you're on the hook for the consequences. Interestingly enough, I have trouble thinking of anything with risks as consequential as with sex that is actually legal...

The point is that any action, legal or not, which involves any degree of risk, can have the consequences. No matter how small the chance of the negative happening, be it an unwanted pregnancy, lung cancer from smoking, or an arrest or accident stemming from a DUI, if that probability hits, you have to deal with the consequences. You have nobody to blame but yourself (and maybe your partner in the case of sex) for taking the risk.

But because abortion is legal, it is incumbent on the pro-lifers to do more than stand in front of the abortion clinic screaming obscenities if they want to spare the life of the child. They should have organizations to help struggling parents (and not just those considering abortions) with the difficulties of carrying the child to term, help the new parents adjust, and lobby the government to increase benefits for those in need to care for the child when the organization's mandate expires. I believe that that could prevent many abortions by providing a more viable solution than currently exists...

 

Sounds like a lot of government programs to me. The last person who suggested that was tagged a "socialist." So, maybe you are in good company....

 

Chandos, it's only socialism if the government does it. It's charity if a private organization does it.

 

Mac's plan is for the government to distribute the rates on the mortgages. I guess maybe I'm not understanding your comment. Does he have a different plan that is charity based? I'd be much more agreeable to that if he does.

In regards to Gnarff's comment, he did also mention the government:

Actaully, that's the old fashsion welfare loop: The more kids you have, the more benefits you receive....

 

Socialism, like most (okay, all) political theories should be heard by the government even if you cant trust them to dominate the government.

And in this case, I think the Pro Life faction should be the ones that step up and help out where money is not the answer.

Not exactly. How about state sponsored child care for working mothers? And try making sure that absentee fathers pay their support. I'm sure that the Army would love some new recruits if they can't find work elsewhere. It has to be something more than just writing a cheque every month...

 

That's socialism, which is fine as long as ALL moms can can take advantage of such a program, if they choose to. Besides, just how would that work? I know many moms, including my wife, who will only use people whom she knows she can trust completely to watch an infant. And even then she still mounts camaras, just to be certain....

 

Although money is a major factor with kids, it's not the main problem. I didn't have an abortion just because it wasn't going to be financially viable to have a kid (although that was a big issue). The state can help with the financial side of things. It's the emotional side that people need support with.

I suffer from depression and when my son was born, it got a lot worse (added post-natal to the list!). Luckily, I have a fantastic partner and I now get on a lot better with my family. At the time I had my abortion, I didn't get on with my family, my partner was pretty much still a kid himself (mentally, as teenage guys generally are) and I didn't feel like I had anyone to turn to. If somebody had said to me then that there was a group I could go to for help then maybe it would have affected my decision

 

Of course they should have access to that.

Participation in the program would be voluntary*. From the sounds of it, your family is not poor. You may not be wealthy, but you probably live an average or slightly better lifestyle.

* As voluntary as possible. If the mother needs to work and has little alternative, she may be required to use the program even if she'd perfer not to...

This is where I challenge the pro-life crowd to get off the ****ing soap box and do something. Christ commanded us to love thy neighbour as thou lovest thyself. These people do have the capacity to serve, and to provide practical and emotional support, then it's about time they organize and try to provide fpr these needs. And leave the bibles at home when you go. The best sermons are not preached, but shown by example. By their fruits ye shall know them...

One of my best Friends and his fiance have two children. When the oldest was about 2 months old, he confessed that he had never been more scared in his whole life. Never having fathered children myself or looked after babies, I was no help, but if some of these people, likely many with parenting experience can take some of these young parents (not just the mother's here, but the fathers too) and give them some emotional support and guidance on how to make the adjustments, could that help the next couple in such a situation?

 

From the back-handed compliment department: Gnarff, even though there are many issues in which we disagree, I cannot write you off as a complete religious nutter, because occassionally you put your faith to words in an entirely sensible manner, like you did here.

This is the third time you did this in the past couple of weeks, and board rules prevent me from giving you another rep bonus because I recently have done so. Kudos to you.

 

Thank you. Most times the Religious issues just don't seem to have a solution like this. Sometimes I think there's something there, but I just am not seeing it. I think I share that compliment with a few others who've asked the right questions...

 

There are a lot of organizations out there that do just that. We're talking everything from free counseling to monetary aid, medical help, legal help, etc. My wife just went over to a local Kime (sp?) Center (formerly the Crisis Pregnancy Centers of Virginia) to see if they could help her fulfill her internship hour requirements as a counselor.

 

Would people get given the choice of having counselling from an intern or is it a case of get what you're given? A lot of people don't even want a trainee nurse to take their blood pressure, never mind talk about something as painful as this!

 

The only way she would have been allowed to work is if they had a licensed counselor overseeing her work, so think of it like a doctor's practicum rotation.

 

Someone I know emailed this to me (a female friend). This is a list of expectations of parenthood, more so than it is a just "laundry list" of what it takes to be a parent these days. Like I commented in an earlier post, if the male wishes to go through with having a baby, he should be prepared to "chip in."

 

That's why there are supposed to be TWO parents, man and woman. It takes two parents to provide for the temporal needs as well as the other activities that they children should be involved in. Anyone not prepared for that commitment should not be having sex.

 

You're right, there should be two parents. However, a lot of people who have abortions do so because they won't have the support of the father.

 

Again, that's why adoption is a good option. Unfortunately, in this social climate, adoption has practically been abandoned in the fight between keeping kids and abortion.