Sex and Nudity in Video Games

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I used to work at a large furniture company here in north carolina & all the drivers that came in from new york, chicago, etc. would hang out in the back as their trucks were being loaded/unloaded. They always made comments about the young girls in the store & expressed disbelief that we knew any girls OVER 12 that were virgins. I really think that it depends on were you come from & what your group/racial-social type finds normal.

Oh, this was back in the late '80s-early '90s

 

I would also like to think that most 10 year-olds aren't having sex yet. Then again, how would I know? I mean, it's not like I go around asking people if they are virgins - and I most certainly don't go around asking 10-14 year old girls if *they* are virgins. Asking questions like that is a good way to get yourself arrested!

 

Well, without meaning any disrespect to truck drivers, I don't think I'd rely on off-the-cuff comments by truckers as providing empirical evidence that most children over 12 have had sex.

 

Ditto, Splunge. Truck drivers getting themselves worked up over girls under 12 could probably get themselves arrested just about anywhere, including NC...but West Virginia?

 

Hmm I think, actually, there is more adult content in games because there are more adults playing them now. The first generation of gamers are now in their 40s and even 50s in some cases. Those are the people who grew up with Pacman and Space Invaders (and even Pong...). Back then, games were mainly for kids, and this image stuck until some way into the 90s. Now that's changed. Kids still play, in greater numbers than ever, but so do the adults who grew up with games. More to the point, computing power and memory has increased exponentially, and thus graphics have become more sophisticated and games are bigger and (in some cases) have more narrative depth than in the past. What this means is that not only is there more demand for adult content (be it sex, violence or themes like drugs and so forth) but it can look a whole lot more realistic than a couple of fuzzy pixels or some lines of text.

It's worth noting that adult themes are nothing new - Leisure Suit Larry has been around forever, whilst other games have used sex in a more serious context. Ultima VII: Serpent Isle (1993) featured a sex scene between the Avatar (whether you chose to play male or female) and a sorceress, which was quite momentous as the Avatar was supposed to be a paragon of virtue, and a virgin. However, some small, pixellated pink characters writhing around for a couple of seconds is hardly Hot Coffee.

No, I don't see a problem with sex in games provided that adult content is labelled as such, and that it is handled tastefully, rather than graphically. I hardly think we are corrupting young minds here, though. Although I didn't have a boyfriend until I was at university, I had a pretty good grasp of sex from 8 or 9 years old because I read my parents' books, be it my dad's illustrated medical books or my mum's detective novels where the hero nearly always got laid at some stage. Kids are naturally curious about such things, and they'll find out one way or another, whether it's from games, the dirty mag their older brother happened to have stashed under his bed, any number of movies, or whatever else is available.

How it's handled in a game is another matter. The BG2 romances (the Bioware ones at least...I know there are a couple of more graphic NPC mods, though the ones I have played have been fairly tame) are harmless enough. Games that treat women as sex objects are more insidious. I am more likely to take offence as Lara Croft's humongously oversized boobs (they are more realistic in the newest versions, but take a look at her original incarnation - it's a wonder she could breathe) or chicks in ridiculous chainmail thongs rather than practical armour that might actually protect them a little.

As for violence, it's tricky. As a child, before the advent of violent computer games, my classmates would play things like "Cowboys and Indians" or "Cops and Robbers" they would act out shoot outs and the like. Toy soldiers and Action Man (the UK GI Joe) were the norm...I had a 5 year old friend who actually had an Action Man in full Nazi regalia - you could get such things in the early 70s, before we were engulfed by a wave of political correctness. Cartoons like Tom and Jerry featured plenty of violence, but parents trusted their kids to tell the difference between cartoon or imaginary violence, and the real thing. Now kids are mollycoddled by over-protective liberal parents, who then wonder why their child backlashes in their teens.

The problem ain't games. It's how kids are brought up these days. Ultimately, it's the parent who should be teaching their child morals, not to mention deciding whether their kid should really be playing Manhunt or GTA. And therein lies the problem.

 

Bingo.

Doesn't jive with your last point. If you wish to argue politics, the Alley is a great place to encounter a few "liberals" who may not care for the way in which you just misrepresented them. See you there.

 

To follow up on Chandos's post:

Second part - right on.

First part - take out the word "liberal", and replace it with "paranoid", and I agree with your point.

 

Indeed, indeed. If it's a game meant for adults, then it IS a game meant for adults. But the problem seems to be that people don't care about games. I once actually got into an argument with a person I know about children playing playing adults' games. He thought along the lines that nobody can really expect the parents to be able to watch what their children play. However, when I told him that then it should also be impossible to prevent children from watching pornography, he disagreed.

Now, I've played adults' games way too young and I still don't feel the need to kill my fellow men, but if parents (not everyone, just those who this applies to) are concerned about it, then they should actually get interested about their kids' free time instead of cursing the games industry when they learn their kid has been playing Captain Murder's Gorefest Adventure. If there's an 18 stamp in the box, then it really means that nobody under 18 is meant to play. Just as it goes for pornography.

I'm no saying that it's possible (without a great bit of moderation, at least), to completely prevent them getting any experiences, but I was once visiting my father's friend, and his kid, some thirteen years old, was playing GTA San Andreas and murdering passerbys with glee in the same room we were speaking in. Again, I really don't think it's going to make him blood-crazed maniac without there already being serious problems from all directions, just as it didn't make me, but it demonstrates how little many parents care about these things. If they complain, they should also be prepared to do something about it.

 

I agree with the general sentament that it's up to the parents to raise the child. As to the liberals on the board that took offense to Cal's comment, are you also mollycoddling and over-protective of your children? I hate to say it, but it is much more of a liberal concept that parents should protect their children from any hint of violence. The other problem group, though, is more all-around: the parents that just don't care.

All-in-all, though, I hadn't intended this to go to child rearing so much as just is it tasteful. Let's face it, no plot needs nudity, and most that include sex can be done wonderfully without nudity. Would Aerie's romance in ToB have been better if you got to watch? That being said, unrequired and bad are not the same thing.

 

And beating your children is more of a conservative concept, you know, to teach them violence or something. If you find this statement offensive you should consider your own words as they hold equal value and equal claim to truth.

 

Back in 1998, with the graphical capabilities of the median system of the time? No, of course not! On the other hand, using the currently available 3D rendering technology and staying within the capabilities of the median system of 2008, a tastefully done Hollywood style love scene would most assuredly be an improvement, yes. Video game sex scenes needn't be X rated, after all. R is just fine.

 

Mmmm. Pixel pixie nipples.

 

Splunge:

So, I take then that you don't have a problem with the sex and romance part, even having a baby and all; it's the graphically "revealing" part that you really don't like. Ok, I see where you are coming from now. But I still think it would be OK, but not really necessary. I tend to agree with Drew.

 

Hang around with enough young adults and/or adolescents (my current job gives me quite a bit of contact with them. Though of course I'm early 20s myself) and you'll find the conversation will, at some point, turn to the subject of when they first had sex.

People--to include people from 'the hood'--were shocked and appalled when one 18 y/o stated he first had sex when he was 13.

 

Chandos, I'm not saying anything on my position yet. I'm just asking questions. The reason I'm focusing on nudity more than sex is that sex has a distinct storytelling role to play. A pre-sex relationship is very different from a sexual or opst-sexual relationship. I don't really see how showing the nudity is anything more than just showing nudity, though. Yes, it can be tasteful, but how important is it to the plot or characters?

 

@NOG: In general, you have a good point, but I don't think you're quite right. Yes, sex has a very serious and important role to play in storytelling, but I think that nudity is also far from unimportant. It can be, to put it in one word, sex-lite - but it can be something else as well.

I could see it being important, actually. First, like sex - though obviously to a much lesser degree - nudity suggests intimacy. Even with people from the same gender, one usually is only naked with very close companions, friends or family membrs. It shows trust and a connection - often sexual, but not necessarily so. In reverse, intruding upon someone naked is at least a major gaffe and a blatant intrusion of their privacy with all the connotations this may bring. Remember the myth of Acteon? If done with intent, such a violation can amount to a symbol for rape: it does not have the same emotional or physical trauma, but it can put the victim in a similar position.


There is also another aspect; when you see someone naked you see not the facade they present to the world, but who they really are. I mean it metaphorically as well as literally, as clothes may conceal more than just skin. Learning about a hidden scar, for example, or masquerading as a different person/ethnicity/race/gender can mean plenty for the characters and the plot in general. Even without such blatant plot devices, though, actually seeing someone's entire body will probably probably change your perception of them, and thus your relationship with them.

In short, I think nudity done well can really enrich a story. Like many intimate and/or sexual themes, however, it has to be done well.

 

NOG - I agree, it's really not necessary from the storytelling point of view. But I still don't have a problem with it. I guess I could take it or leave it.

 

Of course, the overwhelming majority of games--I suspect the majority of RPGs as well, but perhaps I'm mistaken--have a story which the designers clearly felt was a much lower priority than the graphics, interface, gameplay, server browser, etc. etc.

So the storytelling point of view really isn't very important to most games. Including most beloved, iconic, classic games.

X-Com? Civilization? Master of Magic? Doom? Crusader? Mechwarrior? Might and Magic?

 

I'm totally against sex and nudity in video games. The day we see an Orc with a boner is the day the apocalypse comes. Mark my words.

Serious note: I tend to think it's totally unnecessary, but depending on the game, it's no worse than any of the other content. The best example of this to me is perhaps God of War, a game rated M for good reason. After you beat the first level, there's a CGI sequence that shows the hero, Kratos, sitting in a bed in his quarters on his ship, contemplating his fate as two beautiful topless women writhe around in the bed in post-coital bliss, moaning. The scene created is meant to illustrate that Kratos is so troubled by his past that he just nailed two sex kittens and still feels no satisfaction because of his troubled mind. Deep, yes I know.

It was kind of cool to see in an adolescant "whoah, boobies!!" kind of way, but was otherwise gratuitous to the point of pointlessness. They could have shown the same thing with the women under the covers or covered up. But then again - in a game where the object is to tear the heads off of minotaurs and impale people...what's the big deal with a couple of nipples?