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RAID... And other PC related talk...

Discussion in 'Techno-Magic' started by Kitrax, Mar 11, 2008.

  1. Kitrax

    Kitrax Pantaloons are supposed to go where!?!?

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    Remove all ads!
    ***Thread name changed***


    So, we all know what RAID 0 and 1 are, since pretty much everything supports those two configurations. However, RAID 0+1 and 10 are gaining in popularity…and I’m thinking of implementing one or the other in my new computer.

    IIRC, RAID 0+1 and 10 are basically the same (performance and data redundancy wise) until one of the drives fail. This is where the two configurations differ. I don't remember which does what, but from what I've heard, one configuration essentially becomes a RAID 1 array, while the other becomes a RAID 0 array until the dead drive is replaced. Can someone confirm this?

    Now this treads on unfamiliar waters for me, so bear with me...

    What happens if a drive *does* fail. I know that with a RAID 5 array, the drives are 'hot swappable', and the array rebuilds itself once you replace a drive. I’d go with RAID 5 in a second, but the motherboard doesn’t support it.
    So how does RAID 0+1 and RAID10 go about getting back to normal after a dead drive has been replaced?

    Anyway, I'm trying to decide if it's too much of a hassle to deal with RAID 0+1 or RAID 10. If it is, I'll probably just end up using RAID 0 that backs up to an external drive or a NAS box. :rolling:
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2008
    Kitrax, Mar 11, 2008
    #1

  2. Erod Gems: 14/31
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    To put it simply, RAID 0+1 is a mirror of stripes and RAID 1+0 is a stripe of mirrors :-). You should look into the wikipedia entires for standard and nested RAID levels to get a better idea. They have the drive failures explained in a good way as well.

    Personally I would skip these fake RAID (software RAID) setups and go for a real hardware RAID controller (http://www.3ware.com/ for example) and run a RAID 5 or 6 configuration.
     
    Erod, Mar 11, 2008
    #2
  3. Kitrax

    Kitrax Pantaloons are supposed to go where!?!?

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    Hmmm...after talking with a friend at school who works for Dell tech support, and he was telling me how often RAID arrays fail these these days. That being the case, I'm inclined to go with a RAID 5 array...I don't want to waste time rebuilding arrays. We'll see how much money I have left over.

    As for hardware based RAID, I'm not about to spend any more money on hardware when RAID support is built in to the motherboard. Aslo, since I decided to go with an Asus motherboard, RAID 5 is now back on the ticket. :D :rolling:
     
    Kitrax, Mar 13, 2008
    #3
  4. Disciple of The Watch

    Disciple of The Watch Preparing The Coming of The New Order Veteran

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    I was planning a dual-Raptor or dual-SCSI RAID0 for my next rig.

    If I can stash enough dough aside, that is...
     
    Disciple of The Watch, Mar 13, 2008
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  5. Erod Gems: 14/31
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    Just one thing to remember, that with software RAID the data stream has to be pushed through the CPU, eating resources and slowing disc performance. Since all operations are handled by software. RAID 5 has in the past at least, been slow on software RAID setups on write and rebuild operations. I am not sure what the performance is nowadays though. But you should have a look around before going with the software RAID 5 setup, so that at least it will not be a nasty surprise.
     
    Erod, Mar 13, 2008
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  6. Kitrax

    Kitrax Pantaloons are supposed to go where!?!?

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    So I have bought all the components for my new computer....save for the monitor, however, I have an old 19" CRT that will suffice until I can get a new LCD.

    So here are the specs:

    Like I said before, I have yet to buy a monitor. After spending over $2000, I'm a little short on funds right now, but I was thinking of the 20" Dell E207WFP Widescreen monitor because it was the top ranked LCD monitor back in mid-2007. However, I can't find any *current* charts for 20" monitors. I also remember you guys talking about the different types of panels...I don't know anything about that stuff, so if you do, please feel free to toss in your :2c:! I would like to spend around $250 or less...

    Finally, this thread started off as RAID questions. To address Erod's points, I've decided to perform some benchmarks once everything is up and running. First to be tested will be a standard HDD configuration, then a RAID 0 array, and then possibly a RAID 5 array (if my wife lets me buy 2 more HDDs)... I want to see if Erod's claims of slow disk performance pan out. :rolling:
     
    Kitrax, Mar 16, 2008
    #6
  7. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I don't know about write/rebuild performance, but read/access performance using Intel Matrix RAID in a Raid 5 array of 4 drives is great. HD Tach (using the 32mb zone long bench) gives me numbers of 9.3ms access time, CPU utilization 5% +/- 2%, 189.2MB/s average read speed, and 393 MB/s burst read speed on my 100GB volume (which is my boot, OS and application volume).
     
    Blackthorne TA, Mar 16, 2008
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  8. Kitrax

    Kitrax Pantaloons are supposed to go where!?!?

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    Does your system use SATA1.5Gbps or SATA 3Gbps? Also, do you know how fast (rpm) your drives are? :rolling:
     
    Kitrax, Mar 16, 2008
    #8
  9. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Keep in mind that a 20" widescreen only has a slightly larger height than a regular 17". If you want approximately the same height as a regular 19" LCD (plus the extra width), you need to get a 22" wide monitor. Even a 22" widescreen is still slightly lower panel height-wise than a regular 19" LCD.
     
    Taluntain, Mar 16, 2008
    #9
  10. Merlanni

    Merlanni Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    One point of concern. The xi-fi card between the pci-express ports makes it though to place a ati radeon whit a two slots cooler. Your card might just fit in the upper blue one, and surely in the lower blue one.

    I expect that you will get more GPU cards later for crossfire or physix
     
    Merlanni, Mar 16, 2008
    #10
  11. Kitrax

    Kitrax Pantaloons are supposed to go where!?!?

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    Well...considering that my laptop's screen is 15", anything larger will be an improvement. I only use the 19" CRT when I build or fix other people's computers...it has an image burnt in, so it's really annoying to use for more than 5 minutes at a time. :skeptic:

    Good point, however, I'm not going to need an X-Fi card. The back PCIe 1x port is "reserved" for the ASUS discrete sound card, so that's what I'll be using. If I ever do get a X-Fi card, it can also go in the black slot, so space isn't a concern.

    Also, by the time I start using a CrossFire setup, I will have installed a water cooling system, and the GPU waterblocks I've been looking at are very low-profile, so again, space won't be an issue. :D :rolling:
     
    Kitrax, Mar 16, 2008
    #11
  12. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    They are probably the same as what you have: SEAGATE 320gb ST3320620AS SATA2 7200rpm 16mb
     
    Blackthorne TA, Mar 17, 2008
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  13. Chas Gems: 14/31
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    One difference between using the MB raid and using an add-in raid card. If you upgrade your PC (or should I say when - its just a matter of time) then you have to redo the entire raid because the new MB probably will not have the same raid chip. With a card, just plug in the card into the new MB and attach the drives. Depends if you will use the raid for mostly the operating system and installed programs/games or mostly data. If you have to reinstall the system and all the programs/games anyway in the new PC then losing the old raid is no biggie.
     
    Chas, Mar 18, 2008
    #13
  14. Kitrax

    Kitrax Pantaloons are supposed to go where!?!?

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    Oooo...that bodes well for me. :D
    Hmm...I didn't know that. Thanks for the head's up! However, as far as mobo upgrades go, I probably won't need to...or able to for that matter...for 2 to 3 years from now, so I have no problems in losing a RAID array that is planned once every few years or so.


    Here's a question, during XP's setup, I know you need to load the RAID driver, but does it have to be loaded from a floppy drive? I'd rather use a flash drive so I don't have to buy a useless external drive that I'll only use once or twice. :bad: :rolling:
     
    Kitrax, Mar 18, 2008
    #14
  15. Merlanni

    Merlanni Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Yes. can be done I am told. (I used the floppy) format it in fat32, and i believe you must make a boot disk of it. But this is second hand info.

    No vista? Vista has no need for those drivers and detects the sata ports. Well you know best.
     
    Merlanni, Mar 18, 2008
    #15
  16. Kitrax

    Kitrax Pantaloons are supposed to go where!?!?

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    I've been playing with the idea of Vista... however, I have an unopened, full retail version of XP Pro that was left over from the last PC build I did for a friend. (He accidently bought Vista *and* XP when I gave him the parts list...so as a thank you for the awesome deals I got him and for building it, he gave me the copy of XP. :D )

    In other infuriating news...

    Never buy anything from MWave.com!!! :bang: I bought my CPU from those idiots because it was the only site I could find that had the Intel E8400 in stock. So I buy it on March 12th. Payment clears and the order is processed the same day. However, they still haven't shipped it...and it's now the 18th! So I call them up. Apparently, when I bought the CPU, it was really out of stock...and yet, they take my money and process my order...never once telling me that they were out of stock. They told me that they'll get another shipment from Intel on the 25th...

    So I go about my daily errands, and when I get home, I have a new email from them...with a tracking number for my order. (that's odd...what, did the CPU I want magically appear?) However, when I check the tracking number at Fedex's website, the tracking number shows "no results found".... :flaming:

    I was so pissed off, that I was about to cancel my order and demand a refund, but then I remembered that no other site has the CPU in stock either..so I might as well sit around and wait. GRR!!! :nolike:
     
    Kitrax, Mar 18, 2008
    #16
  17. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I order everything from Mwave and have not been disappointed.

    FedEx probably hasn't picked up the package and gotten it into their system yet. I've had that happen before with other companies: You get the tracking number but there's nothing to track until later.
     
    Blackthorne TA, Mar 19, 2008
    #17
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