Gnome or Half-Orc Cleric/Thief

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Ok I've been playing Tutu and changing the characters up and now I'm contemplating the Cleric/Thief multi class. Right now I'm considering a solo run of tutu and a party run of SOA + TOB, but that's all subject to change. But I've run into a road block of what race to play as. The only legal choices are Half-Orc and Gnome. Half-Orc offers a lot of slight advantages like 19 STR which would be 20 by the end of Tutu, 19 CON can end up as 20 CON and regeneration early on in tutu, and an 18 WIS which would be 21. On the other hand the gnome gets better saves against magic, but loses out on the 19 STR, a starting 18 WIS, and natural Regeneration. While the Half-Orc benefits from better possible stats, I'm not sure how useful all those huge stat boosts are for the Cleric/Thief.

Any ideas on the race and stat allocation? Other useful tips are welcome like weapon proficiencies for early Tutu.

 

I'm a bit confused as to whether you will be going party or solo.

If solo, I'd go gnome, as the save bonuses will be really nice.

If party, I'd go halforc because he can be more badarse and you can get other characters to soak up spells so saves aren't as big of an issue.

 

I haven't decided if I want to solo BG1 or not, but I do plan on taking a party for SOA

 

why can't we play as multiclass half-elf cleric/thief?

 

Have you thought of dual-classing? I've always been interested in an Assassin --> Cleric. . . .

 

I soloed a gnome C/T in SoA -- not a problem. She was ungodly powerful. You can get a magic staff early in BG1 (it is an excellent backstab weapon). Choose staves and slings (missile weapons rule in BG1) as initial proficiencies, then perhaps mace for future use. Be sure to get clubs before you go too far in SoA. The other proficiency slots don't really matter as the best weapons are the staff mace, staff spear, and staff of striking for a C/T in BG1 (with TotSC) -- all of which allow backstabs (as do clubs, but there no good clubs in BG1).

There is not much difference between a 19 and 20 strength (+1 damage ... woo hoo...). Con above 16 is a waste (you're a CLERIC dammit). The difference between 20 and 21 wisdom is not really noticable, the extra 3rd and 5th level spell but I rest whenever I run out a spells, two less is not that big of a deal.

For a party -- male gnome can only romances Aerie, male half-orc can only romance Viconia. I don't think Anomen is too particular with who he shacks up with (beggers can't be choosers).

Retet: In original AD&D rules you could have a half-orc cleric/assassin -- I've sk'ed that in and it's a lot of fun.

 

I have considered dual-classing, but I want the Cleric spells in BG1 and I'd like to have thief HLAs eventually. Plus an assassin would make BG1 extremely difficult with the limited amount of thief points at first.

EDIT: I realize CON above 16 does nothing for the cleric or thief. I was just listing the advantages of a Half-Orc over a gnome and that is the ability to have natural regeneration early in BG1. That doesn't mean I would use the extra 3 points on CON, but the choice is there.

Also I do not have TtSC so no extra staffs beyond the +1....this will be interesting. If I can ever find TtSC for under $10 I'll buy it to play the whold saga.

 

It really comes down to personal preference, although I would think that the half-orc would be the more powerful character overall. T2Bruno is correct that the difference between 19 and 20 strength is negligible. However, you don't get that tome of strength until you return to Candlekeep in Chapter 6. For the vast majority of BG1, your gnome will have an 18 strength, and the difference between 18 and 19 is VERY significant:

18: +1 to hit, +2 to damage
19: +3 to hit, +7 to damage

The difference in potential Constitution is only present if you actually spend those points to start with a 19 as a half-orc. Whenever I ever play a non-fighter class, I set my Constitution an 15, as it will then be raised to 16 once I get the tome. Regeneration is nice to have, but I personally don't think it's worth spending 4 extra points in constitution if you are not getting the hit point boost from the fighter class. Those extra 4 points could be better spent on charisma. (Now if you were being say, a cleric/fighter then it would be a no-brainer).

Since you don't have TotSC, you're also going to miss out on a tome of wisdom, but I agree with T2Bruno that a loss of a few spells is nothing much.

As for finding a copy of TotSC for under $10, I think I bought the entire BG1 saga (when I wore my first copy of the CDs out) for like $15. It may be hard to find just TotSC without getting the whole set.

 

A half-orc will be superior for the whole game.
Viconia doesn't romance half-orcs unless you install an unofficial fix.

 

Unless you actually want to use your thieving abilities. No bonuses for half-orcs, +40 total for gnomes:

Open Locks +5
Find/Remove Traps +10
Move Silently +5
Hide in Shadows +5
Detect Illusion +10
Set Traps +5

The Viconia/Half-Orc romance is a Baldurdash bug fix.

 

Half-orc without a doubt. Priests have the best save vs death of the four class groups, and rogues have very good saves against magic (items and spells), so you won't really need the save bonuses from a gnome. The only save C/Ts are weak in is Breath Weapon, and you won't need that until BG2, when you'll have a party.

On a 2e note: Half-orcs aren't supposed to be cookie cutter (BG2 made them a human duplicate with stat bonuses). They actually have a max WIS of 14. With that in mind you might want gnome...but only if you actually care about such things.

 

I think 18 Str with DUHM once I reach level 3 will be perfectly fine for BG1 and once I get to SOA Str won't be an issue anyways. I think for now I'll go with a gnome because in P&P I like gnomes better in the first place. That and in brief playtesting the Gnome seems better with better thieving points.

So for starting stats I'm thinking

STR 18
DEX 18
CON 15
INT 10 or 9
WIS 17
CHA 9 (18 would be prefered, but that's a high roll)

I was also planning on going with Quarterstaff and Sling and picking up Warhammer as my first prof during level up to make use of Bassilus' Hammer. Should I consider 2 Handed Weapon Prof to increase my Quarterstaff's speed and gain a point of damage or should I wait till later in the game? I'll pick up Club and Mace later (most likely while in SOA). If I wanted to I could get 3* in Two Weapon Fighting because I use that component of Rogue Rebalancer, but that's a lot of profs for my poor C/T.

Any suggests for quest order in BG1 to gain quick levels? I know I want to Sanctuary my way to the +1 CON and +1 CHA manuals pretty early, but any ideas to actually get XP?

 

I usually do the quests in Candlekeep, that's ~300XP, looting the upstairs of the tavern is important too, since you get the potion that protects you from Siren attacks (and if you have 65% in lockpicking you get the gem that's worth 1000gp).

Then kill the spiders for that gnome in the third floor of Friendly Arm, that's IIRC 5x175 XP, plus the XP the gnome gives you.
(The easiest way to kill them is to sneak to the room next to the spideys and then hit them with a quarterstaff/shoot them).

Then talk some sense into Marl or whatever his name was in Felderposts Inn, that's 900XP.

Then go kill some Sirens using the potion you get from Candlekeep (maybe combined with the potion of speed from Immy), you get 5x2000XP and the constitution tome from the cave.

After that it should be pretty easy to kill Bassilus and get some XP and coin from the church.

 

Greater Basilisk yields 4000xp IIRC - with Korax and some VERY lucky slingshots, your gnome might kill one, maybe two and gain some levels. Hiring temporary archer to do the dirty work will make the job a lot easier (with some xp "loss").

 

Or you really want to make Saving Throws. Gnomes get a bonus to magic saves based on their CON.

I'd actually suggest a dual class here, not multiclass.

If you dual class, starting as a Cleric, then you can pick pointy weapon proficiencies as a Thief, which really help when you get UAI and want to use Katanas and Ninja-Tos.

 

So I started and created my gnome, Zeek

C/T
STR 18
DEX 18
CON 15
INT 9
WIS 17
CHA 11

It was a really good role for me and didn't take that long to get. So far I've done Candlekeep, making sure to pick every single lock to get the amazing 10xp per lock including the Star Sapphire. I then stole everything Imoen, Monty, and Xzar had on their persons and sent them to FAI. After selling my full inventory at High Hedge, I wandered around Beregost robbing houses and completing small tasks like Marl and that Elf looking for the book (name eludes me at the moment). I went south of Beregost to collect a certain letter from Orgillions and more importantly the Boots of Stealth from a Hobgoblin. Then I set my sights on Silke's Staff +1. It took several tries, but I took her down miraclously with Command Word: Die and a potion of haste from Imoen.

Any suggestions for using Cleric spells to help my cause? I know I can use Sanctuary for sneaking/looting, but it doesn't let me backstab from the protection. I've grown to like CWD, but I'm starting to miss sleep. Currently I'm CLR2/CLR3 at least I believe I am so only a few more experience points before Level 2 spells!

 

Great roll - but why 18 constitution? Like I said, I would have gone with 15, and thrown the other 3 points into charisma.

 

whoops meant 15 CON, edited to reflect this.

 

I would have gone w/ 18.

You get a bonus to Saves at 18 CON.

 

I don't think 1 point on a couple saves was worth the 3 points. It took me 10 minutes to get that good of a role and I didn't feel like trying for better.

Side question because someone suggested dual classing the thief...Can thieves backstab with scimitars or any of the weapons that come with that proficiency?

I'm thinking about starting BG1 as a solo, but when I get lonely picking up a few members to fit my insane gnome's will. Right now I'm thinking Xzar and Shar-teel and the gnome pair (even if Tiax is redundant with my own C/T). Sort of like the crazy themed party with my PC doing most of the work. And I'm still looking for some strategy ideas for the C/T in tutu.