BG2 - Last of legend

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If you've played pnp RPGs that were worse than the elder scrolls series, I'm really sorry but you should politely ask your gamemaster to retire. IMHO roleplaying is not just roaming around in pretty settings watching the rain fall and the sun set.

I haven't played Oblivion (but I've seen it at a friend's and it's very pretty) but I've played Morrowind and I must say that RPwise you're very limited. You have to have a very fertile imagination to make up for the fact that you can't change sides. Once you've agreed to do a quest you can't just go to the other fellow and negotiate a better pay (something that could be done in good old Fallout). And don't get me started on the terrific dialogue options in Morrowind. NPCs telling me some useless information in a generic (to put it mildly) way bored me to death.

A plot is all about a good story and good characters. Although immersive and addictive (in all fairness at least for a while) Morrowind is not what I'd call a good RPG. I even had more fun playing NWN for all the combos and mixing of classes whereas in Morrowind (despite a wonderful experience system) whatever skills you choose at the start you could still get an uber level in every skill under the sun in the end. By the way these shall we say technical aspects are not what matters in a real RPG, all you need is a good GM and players who are keen on playing together for hours on end.

This may sound like I'm ranting but you should revise your standards if you really mean to define what a RPG is. Instead of throwing out definitions around you should consider getting some friends together and play a good pnp game. That time however pick a good DM (not one who relies on railroad plots).

 

The point was that the DM's were new - and didn't really understand how to do a good job. With NWN/NWN2 it's the same thing. They're not RPG's just because you get to pick your character class and race.

Elder Scroll series aren't as good as fallout or BG for sure - but again that's not the point. They're still as close to RPG's as we've gotten since the BG Series. Every RP problem you described with them is 10x worse with NWN2. More restricted in almost every aspect. (Sometimes the restrictions are better though I guess- ie: skills/abilities).

As far as my standards for an RPG... is a non-computer role playing game for good reason. cRPG's are anything that come close (BG/Fallout/PS:T/etc.), and there's an entirely different genre for games like NWN, Action Adventure (Diablo2, Dungeon Siege). They're more advanced versions, but the idea is the same - follow the thin story until you've killed every bad guy and collected the neat-o gear.

With Oblivion and Morrowind on the otherhand... you can spend the entire game experience running a potion business collecting herbs, making potions, selling them to shops, or buying and trading between shops. Very few if any games give you that as an option - however unlikely or un-fun as it may sound to you . (Fable actually does that to a smallish extend).

 

I agree on that point. In Fable a half demon character can quietly go fishing, that doesn't make a good RPG out of it (although it's a fun action game IMO). Anyway, I sure will avoid NWN2, I heard so many bad things about it, your post confirms that.

 

Yea - unless you take grand enjoyment from creating characters or want to spend a few hours downloading modules from hard-to-find websites, it's probably not worth buying 'til it's cheap.

 

Not quite true. 3.0 and 3.5 setting books, at least for FR, seem to have more mechanics and less information than 2.0 ones. I just downloaded a little from the free 2nd edition materials, and let me tell you, Volo's Guide to the Dales blows away any 3.x regional book I've come across in terms of campaign information. As for the BoED/BoVD, they are a good secondary resource, but they provide alignment extremes, a way to play alignment to the maximum. In this, they conflict the PHB which sets alignment as a loose guideline, and can thus be very, very troubling.

@Caradhras: For all its troubles, NWN isn't a bad game imo. I've played it a bit, and while the interface takes some warming up to, it's quite tolerable. MotB looks like it won't disappoint, either. However, the true use of NWN 2 will be as a platform for mods. NWN 1 had many modules that rivaled or outdid the original campaigns, and with time and a decent modmaking tool NWN 2 will have its share of great campaigns as well.

 

NWN is not bad, it just doesn't fulfill its potential.

If you're interested in pnp or the forgotten realms in general check this link (I'm sure that's what the Shaman is referring to).

 

yeh Fable, in that game like a lot of "RPG" games, it was too easy to be good, and kinda hard to be evil, hardly any evil quests, and killing demons got you good points. I had to go to bowerstone and start pounding little kids into the dirt to get evil, that and sacrificing good mercenaries at the temple of Skorm.


Hmm NWN2 isnt that great a game? i shall have to avoid it then.



and yeh when has a game that was as well planned, well thought out, or had as much story and character development, both for the PC and NPCs as BGII did come out in recent years.

new games all seem to be these no story, barely any point to them, pay to play MMOs, is that what people want these days?

i much prefer a good old, single player RPG, with interesting characters and sub plots, great voice acting, crazed sewer dwelling cultists, treasure seeking psycotic dwarves, nature loving druids, trolls besieged keeps, hardcore bitch female drows, revenge seeking dragons, evil soul stealing mages, sneaky theives noble Paladins heroic Rangers and Boo, i forgot Boo. and if i can play this game online with friends well hell thats even better.


last of legend indeed.

 

In Fable you can always slaughter travellers and guards to get evil points (and XP). That's actually easier than behaving like a goody shiny pally.

You summed it up very nicely, it may look clichéd but that's what made BG2 so good.

 

I'd like to see a pnp game with multiple sorcerers place members... I can only imagine how hardcore it might be (pretend it's a dungeon master screen, haha).

 

exactly. but prehaps back then compnaies worked on story and character, as graphics were limited.

nowadays games seem to be these flashy graphical, no point to them games. run around kill a few baddies and try get godly gears, that sounds sooo fun. id rather be out slaying a dragon with a grudge against my foster father, or investigating a series of murders/dissappearances somewhere, summoning demons with dragon eggs, or finding a talking sword in the sewers.

 

[Entire post removed, warning pending, too many rules violations to count - /dmc]