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Why is this game so hard?

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by egervari, Sep 25, 2004.

  1. egervari Gems: 2/31
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    It took me 5 reloads just to beat the spiders in the grove, and I can't even do the moathouse. I'm using a dwarven fighter, a human fighter, a druid, a sorceror and a rogue. It just seems strange that the first quest you start on is impossible. Like in 2 hits, my guys die and my thac0 sucks so basically it's just being lucky that I win a battle (rolls go my way, rolls don't go there way).
     
  2. iceviper Gems: 1/31
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    Too hard?
    I'm sorry to say,but this game is the easiest RPG i played,including the ancient Dark Sun games.
    My party'if i remember correctly, was as follow:
    half orc fighter\barbarian
    human cleric
    half-elf wizard
    human thief
    elf ranger
    One thing i can advice is to build your party well-balanced, with feats that your characters use effectivly.

    at the advanced part of the game you can add REALLY powerful characters, which make the game extremly easy.
     
  3. Rednik Gems: 21/31
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    The game isn't that hard, the key is making a good party and understanding the rules of the game and making the most of them. I beat the spiders with a level 1 party, and it wasn't that difficult.

    A good idea is to do every side-quest in Hommlet(yes they are boring, but exp is exp) and then attempt Deklo Grove with level 2 characters, and you will dominate.

    Tips for this battle are to spread out, so all of your characters don't get webbed at once. Another good idea is to have a melee fighter such as a dwarf or half-ord with high strength do the attacking, their attack bonus will be high enough to hit the spiders. Finally, if you still cannot kill them, be sure to look around Hommlet, there are a few NPC's that can help you out, even if you only want to keep them for this one battle, such as Elmo or Furnok.
     
  4. egervari Gems: 2/31
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    It's not like I don't understand the rules. I've played a lot of these kind of games. It's just that I never seen a game pin you up against spiders at level 1. Even in BG you never fought spiders until much later. It's not like they are impossible if you get 2 good hits, but it seems that even when they hit your character, they take away more than half of your hp. I mean, how does knowing the game make this any easier? I can't influence the rolls. Also, you just enter the area and they cast web. It's not like you have any chance of moving away. If I had a ton of gold, sure, I'd buy all the plate mail +1's and stuff. I guess I'll just do the quests at the beginning before I go back to the moathouse.

    [ September 25, 2004, 23:47: Message edited by: egervari ]
     
  5. ejsmith Gems: 25/31
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    There's a character editor, you know, mate. Also, you can just install the Vick's/Wedge mode, and your people will usually get a whole bunch of goodies at game-start. You can sell that for gold (and keep some), and have your wizard memorize all the scrolls.

    Also, there's quite a bit to do around town before even venturing out into the unknown. There is certainly a level to gain within town before bothering anywhere else.

    And like everywhere else in the game, you have to take enemies on one at a time, whenever possible.
     
  6. egervari Gems: 2/31
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    Well, I'd like to do stuff legitly. I think the game should be properly balanced for your current level is all. I mean, BG, BG2, etc. were not this poorly balanced in the beginning quests. Sure, you could get yourself caught into an area that was just too hard, but generally you could only do so many things at the beginning and it was perfectly balanced for them (i.e., taking an inferior character would still be okay). I think the game should have taken this approach.
     
  7. Fabius Maximus Gems: 19/31
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    You must be doing something wrong, egervari.
    I usually have no problems whatsoever clearing the moathouse. I don't even do the Hommlet quests, but go there right from the start.

    You wrote of THAC0. Are you even familiar with the new D&D ruleset?
    Maybe it helps when you post you party here.
     
  8. egervari Gems: 2/31
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    Well, I know it's called BAB but I still call it THAC0. I wrote the UPP guide for Icewind Dale 2 (on gamefaqs and I think you can download it here too), so I'm not short on 3e rules. I did figure out that Windows XP SP2 causes problems with the game, so maybe that's just it.
     
  9. Rednik Gems: 21/31
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    And if you're still having problems with Deklo forest, take Elmo and ditch him afterwards. He takes 1/3 of your gold, but since there isn't any there, he can just act as a damage sink and will let you win the fight. I don't like most of the NPC's though. Darley and Scorpp are exceptions.

    Edit: As for stuff in this game that isn't in others like Icewind Dale 2, take a look at the radial movement and combat wheel. 5-foot step is good because it doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity and you can do a full attack afterwards, and charge is great for early parts of the game because of the doubled movement and attack bonus. Another goody is ready vs. approach with a glaive in the hands of a fighter with combat reflexes.
     
  10. zhuge Gems: 1/31
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    Hi egervari,

    It's not everyday I see ex-Interplay board members. :) Would be glad to help you if I could.
    Anyway, you can some get info here:
    http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?&threadid=320614
    http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?&threadid=324350

    I went with point buy and was still Ok but it's nice to start out with a well balanced party and I do agree that level 1 adventurers are pretty vulnerable, which is why it may pay off just doing a few town quests first before attempting either the Deklo grove spiders or the Moathouse.

    AFAIK, the SP2 issue only affects looting and opening doors and pressing C usually overcomes the looting problem. Game difficulty is not affected. But I sincerely believe you'll find the game a lot less frustrating if you uninstall SP2 for the time being.

    EDIT: Taking Elmo may be a good idea if you find the initial fights too difficult. But your party seems ok though and you already have 2 tanks upfront so I don't think it's absolutely necessary.
    Get your meleers to flank as soon as possible, especially your Rogue to get that sneak damage in. Open up the d20 window and look at your rolls to see what exactly appears to be the problem.
     
  11. Hellheart Gems: 3/31
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    @egervari : remember , this game is pnp d&d , it plays totally different than the crpg's! I had problems too , but read a faq or two about it and you'll start to get the hang on it , just don't give up on it. A good tip : use the reach weapons ; you might also want to read the core rules book. (Am I glad I ever bought that book).
     
  12. Rednik Gems: 21/31
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    Just as Hellheart said, Reach Weapons make a big difference in this game, and are useful throughout the game, although no magical variants(aside from 2-3 Spears +1) can be found in the Temple. However, there are a few masterwork reach weapons that can be found in the game, and it's worth getting Craft Magical Arms and Armor just to upgrade them. I recommend Glaives and Ranseurs.
     
  13. Hellheart Gems: 3/31
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    I'm currently using those two weapons in my party. I'v also made a character who uses spiked chain -> it has reach , it is exotic though , useable close-up , you can trip with it AND it is useable with the finesse feat. Made him a human fighter so you get a total of three feats to start with -> exotic weapon : spiked chain , weapon focus : spiked chain , weapon finesse : spiked chain. Dexterity 18 , gave him light armor and chose tumble as a skill.
     
  14. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    The game is hard in the beginning because it's different to the IE engine rules implementation. Here you get all the goodies like Attacks of Opportunity and other strict combat rules and spellcasting limitations. At least you don't have to get components for spells. Once you revise the D&D rules or make enough observation in the game, it should be easier. Chances are you'll be able to exploit the system yet.

    What is hard is waiting for combat rounds to end. I could make a coffee in the time between rounds when I played the game on my brother's computer.

    Note: 5 reloads isn't that many... :roll: :spin:
     
  15. Hellheart Gems: 3/31
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    Save once before engaging in combat , use a save slot only for this! And use quicksave to save after every succesfull hit , spell , ... etc.
     
  16. ion Gems: 5/31
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    [​IMG] I enjoyed your faq for IWDII. I find it hard to believe that someone who knows so much about creating powerful 3e builds is struggling with TOEE
     
  17. aaz Gems: 1/31
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    Different pace

    Yeah, it's hard if you try to play it like other D&D CRPGs. The pace is completely different and the battles are the centerpiece of the game.

    I kept trying different things before finally hitting on a winning forumla and am finally advancing at a decent pace.

    For starters, I abandoned the standard mix of classes and just hired on every fighter I could find and went with an all-tank group to finally win some battles. As I advanced, I began to shed the NPCs and slowly added other player characters in the other classes (magic-user, cleric, rouge, etc.). These leveled up fairly quickly as the tank core of NPCs smashed through the battles and were slowly dropped from the party. Started multi-classing too. For example, converted one player fighter into a rouge, which allowed me to dump the NPC rouge.

    By the time I reached the Temple, I had a balanced party with only 2 NPCs and will probably ditch one of them soon.

    I'll admit it was frustrating before I adopted this strategy. But in the end, it has made for a richer experience as I have been forced to try all sort of new techniques and tactics.

    Just stick with it and throw out all your previous plans!
     
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  18. Stuntman Gems: 5/31
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    I didn't have many problems with the battles. I prefer having a lot of magic in my party. My favourite party consists of a fighter, cleric, druid, wizard and sorcerer.

    For the spiders in the grove, I may need to do some reloads. The key to winning is the sleep spell. If you can put some of the spiders to sleep, it makes the battle easier. Also, you should try to spread your party out as much as possible to ensure not all of your party is hit by the web.

    I managed to finish the game using a this party and using the standard point buy for abilities.
     
  19. Anthropoid Gems: 2/31
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    In a way I agree with OP. This is not an _easy_ game. But I think that is perfect actually. I have had to reload a bit. Part of that has just been learning how the engine works, which btw, I absolutely love.

    Apart from the bugs, this is one of the best isometric, turn-based (more-or-less) tactical/RPG games I've played.

    I first played D&D in the early 1980s, and this game captures the rich, dreamy yet lethal and gripping feeling of the original game.

    I bought the DnD Anthology pack off of Gamersgate so I have several of these oldies but goodies (BG, BG2, PST, ID, ID2, ToEE). PST, meh, not my style really though I can see how it is a cult classic. BG2 I had played before and it is a great game, still I think I prefer the feeling and enhanced tactical sophistication of ToEE. BG, nice but suffers some of the early era game design flaws (too much railroading in some places and not enough texture and enrichment in others). I may go back and playthrough BG at some point, particularly if I can locate and install a mod/expanstion pack that enriches the game.

    ID2 have not tried yet, ID, very nice, but a bit munchkinish.

    ToEE I absolutely LOVE!

    Having a bit of trouble though, as I cannot seem to get the Windows Installer that came with the Anthology pack to allow me to re-install to a non-default location. The default Programs(x86) (Windows 7 OS) has all those various problems of course, and I thought that perhaps the failure of the Official Patch #2 to install might have been a result of the game being installed there.

    Anyone have any recommendations on:

    1. Getting the game reinstalled in a location that is not restricted by the Win 7 security nonsense? (e.g., C\Atari\DnDAnthology\ToEE etc.)

    2. Expansions and mods for ToEE?

    3. Other games that are similar to ToEE?
     
    ConjurerDragon and Stuntman like this.
  20. Darion

    Darion Resident Dissident Veteran BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    1. Getting the game reinstalled in a location that is not restricted by the Win 7 security nonsense? (e.g., C\Atari\DnDAnthology\ToEE etc.)

    -Uff, I only have only one game from gamergate (Carrier Command: GM), and that too installed without me being able to change the location. Dunno if you can migrate the ToEE install. Would like to know too. Especially since it's installed by the GG-client.

    2. Expansions and mods for ToEE?

    -There is the Co8 Mod. Comes with tons of fixes and adds new content ( you can opt for one without new content, just vanilla and the tons of fixes.)
    The new content one has more of anything.
    The Mod overhauls also the textures, which makes for a sharper and fresher feel of the tile-sets and areas.

    There is also the Keep on the Borderlands which is a module for ToEE. Also an adaption of the classic PnP module.
    Never played it and cannot tell how good it is. But there is no reason to think the Co8 guys can't deliver .

    3. Other games that are similar to ToEE?

    -As in turn-based D&D? Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor.
     
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