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Who Needs The Fourth Amendment Anyway?

Discussion in 'Alley of Lingering Sighs' started by dmc, Dec 15, 2011.

  1. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Remove all ads!
    Got this link in the email today:


    http://warisacrime.org/nomohabeas


    The Jon Stewart clips were, as always, very funny, but the concept is amazingly disturbing to me.

    Just an extension of the phenomenon that started with the Patriot Act and continues to erode our civil rights in the U.S.

    As a lawyer, the idea of essentially indefinite imprisonment without a trial raises my hackles and I have absolutely NO faith in the government to restrain itself at all. NONE.


    Edit: From the Huffington Post link:


     
    dmc, Dec 15, 2011
    #1
  2. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Yeah, WTF is that all about? What is wrong with these people? Indefinitely imprison American citizens without charge? You better rethink that you bozos!
     
    Blackthorne TA, Dec 15, 2011
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  3. The Shaman Gems: 28/31
    Latest gem: Star Sapphire

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    I don't see what is the problem with having to charging them. I mean, they were taken in for something, the idea of not telling what it is sounds like complete BS to me.

    With laws like that, all that stands against total catastrophe is the common sense of the people in the judiciary system. Apparently the executive doesn't have any, and/or is too busy pandering to do its job right.
     
    The Shaman, Dec 15, 2011
    #3
  4. Morgoroth

    Morgoroth Just because I happen to have tentacles, it doesn'

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    I found this somewhat strange when I read about it. I also found it strange how so few in congress actually opposed this. What are the chances that the Supreme Court intervenes to strike down the law?
     
    Morgoroth, Dec 15, 2011
    #4
  5. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

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    As I have posted, the egregious and shameful piece of legislation in question are the the detainee provisions within the defence authorization bill that the Senate adopted last week or so. They effectively render moot the right of Habeas Corpus and the Posse Comitatus act (which is a simple bill, and can thus be overiden by other, simple bills).

    The bill opens the door for wider detentions without due process including the continental US, including military detention of US citizens without due process. That is anathema to the notion that in America law is king. No more.

    This new legislation owes nothing to the US tradition but rather to German lawyer Carl Schmitt, and his notion that soverign is who can declare a state of emergency or exception and suspend the rule of law. The unitary executive branch theory, first broached under Bush and now, sadly, perpetuated by Obama, is all about these asserted inherent emergency powers of the president (elected king?).

    The sainted founders are by now probably rolling in their graves.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2011
    Ragusa, Dec 15, 2011
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  6. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Hmm. It seems as if there is some confusion about what the bill contains and the proper interpretation.

    Great. Just what we need: More vague laws allowing conflicting interpretations shoved through in a spending bill so that it's more likely to be passed. :rolleyes:

    I am really tired of legislators bundling unrelated stuff up to get it passed more easily.
     
    Blackthorne TA, Dec 15, 2011
    #6
  7. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    I did particularly like the Stewart comment of: "But they will release you upon the end of hostilities. So as soon as the War on Terror is over, and Terror surrenders, they'll let you go."

    I think one thing is becoming clear. Obama will not be running against Gingrich, or Romney, or Perry, or anyone else on the Republican ticket: He will be running against Congress.
     
    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot, Dec 15, 2011
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  8. LKD Gems: 31/31
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    Even I, the advocate of all things that brutalize criminals, am aghast at this idea. To hold someone indefinitely without charging them or presenting them before the judge is a serious matter that should never be taken lightly. This can all too easily be abused for political purposes. Only after someone has had their day in court and found guilty should they be tossed away and treated like the crap they are. But we have to PROVE they are crap first.
     
    LKD, Dec 16, 2011
    #8
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