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What I'd like to see in Baldur's Gate 3.

Discussion in 'Baldur's Gate 3' started by Nogoodnamesleft, Jan 24, 2005.

  1. Nogoodnamesleft Gems: 1/31
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    -Much less political correctness.
    -A much, much, much better pathfinding system than the previous games because theirs were terrible.
    -Graphics that really, honestly take advantage of what computers can do today.
    -More interesting NPC's (some of the ones from other games were boring, annoying, or otherwise just unappealing), including not only their personalities, voices, portraits and appearances, but also their histories/backgrounds.
    -It should be entirely in 2E rules, not 3E; 3E sucks.
    -When standing still, characters shouldn't be all hunched over because it looks dumb. I want my heroic knight in shining armour to stand with his head held high as a noble, fearless warrior of royal blood should.
    -Characters should be able to run when you want, not just walk.
    -They should also be able to swim, jump, climb, move stealthily (how effective they are at avoiding being seen should also be effected by their armour, size, stats, the environment including the floor's substance, and how they've been trained in stealthy movement) etc.
    -Characters should be able to do absolutely everything possible in an actual game of D&D, regardless of what it is or how stupid it is.
    -Characters should get strongholds depending on their individual classes (warriors get a fort, knights have either a shining white castle if they're good or a dark, evil, forboding Barad-Dur esque tower of doom if they're evil), but more customized (as mentioned, different forts for different classes depending not only on alignment but also their race, for example a dwarvish warrior's fortress would obviously be underground or carved out of the side of a mountain).
    -All classes should be made so as to be definitely good, fun to play and a help both in and out of combat since in all the Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale games, the bard and druid were of but scant usefulness. As an example, the Druid should have really serious power over nature and animals. Similarly, the Bard's song should be very potent and actually do things that effect the course of a battle or other situation on a significant scale.
    -There should be an utterly huge game world consisting of hundreds of different places/areas, some of them bigger than others (including some really huge ones) and no matter what, it should still all fit on ONE, and only one disc because one of the annoying parts of the first Baldur's Gate was that you often had to change discs when going into a new area which was quite annoying.
    -There should be a vast number of creatures and monsters, all that are actually in D&D and any the writers or whatever can think up on the fly.
    -They should definitely have Minsc. NO game with the name "Baldur's Gate" is really Baldur's Gate without him.
    -They should settle for only the very best voice actors, and should not exclude, avoid or refuse Frank Welker under any circumstances, regardless of how much money he wants. HE'S FRANK ****ING WELKER.
    -They should get a better guy than before to do the music. Beforehand, the music just wasn't that incredible. I know I've heard some truly awesome scores like the one for NWN at the title screen. IMO, the only infinity engine game that had very good music was IWD (although I've never played Planescape: Torment, so I don't know about that one.)
    -There should be lots, and lots of (believable) character development meaning that not only do their abilities, skills, stats, attributes, etc. change over time but also their personalities and personality characteristics, meaning that the characters are honestly effected by what happens to them. For example, a heroic knight is in your party. His woman dies, is killed by an evil knight. Said heroic knight who was once cheerful, positive, and gallant, is now very grim and even bitter, and eventually goes from being a man who wants justice and what's right above all to someone who lusts for revenge as does a starving wolf lust for a wounded deer's flesh, and the knight will do anything to get it; even open a gateway into an ancient Hellish dimension where awaits a prehistoric (think Lovecraft) god of darkness and dread; in other words, the knight can even become the main villain over time. Now THAT's what I call character development. Yes, the development would have to be scripted, but nonetheless it would be great. Similarly, the development should not be predetermined; it should go differently each time you play the game, depending on how the game goes as it should have multiple endings and courses towards such endings, EG, you save the knight's wife in time and the main villain is somebody else. In other words, evil characters can become good, good ones can become evil, your character can become a god (without that being the main part or focus of the game, since that's what it was the last time which always annoyed me thoroughly), etc.
    -As stated, there should be multiple endings, at least a few dozen possibilities and preferrably up to the thousands. You don't believe me? As I recall there was this game back on the original Playstation console called Star Ocean Story or something like that, and it had something like 30,000 different endings. That was on the Playstation, a vastly, vastly less advanced system than any PC, so don't tell me they can't do it.
    -Characters should have very detailed personalities (they never did at all in the first Baldur's Gate game, but then again that was the better part of a decade ago so there wasn't much they could do, anyways), and conversations between characters should be detailed (which is also unlike the first game), and all characters should react towards each other in a reasonable manner (a heroic knight is not going to get along with a flesh-eating dark elf black sorcerer, rather obviously).
    -They should definitely keep or bring back Jan Jansen, the funniest character in the whole history of the game series.
    -Characters' alignments should actually be their reputation which would depend on their actions. In other words, your character becomes qualified as a good guy, and perhaps even a world-reknowned hero by doing goodly deeds, EG rescuing princesses, slaying village-roasting dragons, and saving the world would probably be the best example one could come up with. Naturally the NPCs who would join your party could only have their alignment changed by the previously mentioned character development as being able to change their alignments would ruin their, well, character, and even make their personalities seem out of place.
    -All classes should have the same max/peak level.
    -You character/s should start out at level one, and the peak/max level should always be somewhere over 20.
    -Characters should be able to ascend to EPIC level, meaning like Beowulf (as strong as 30 men, can swim out to sea for five days and kill whales with a sword, rip MEGA demons' arms off, etc.), where warriors can slay foes of unimaginable power, mystical weapons are those of perhaps even a few gods, and wizards can blow up castles, mountains and cities. However, characters should only be able to get to that point very, very far into the game.
    -The game should take many hundreds of hours to beat and should have very variable difficulty settings which range from infantile beginning novice to godlike lordly gaming master of the world. In other words, you can always find the difficulty setting that's just right for you, and you should be able to very thoroughly customize it to make certain things more and less difficult (nobody wants a dragon to die in one hit, but then again, not any character of decent power should need significant effort to fell just one measly goblin, either).
    -There should be many different races to play (several dozen), not just five or six.
    -Your character's character model should be highly customizable, meaning that unlike in the first Baldur's Gate game (there's that line again), not all male characters would look like the same guy with the same face but different hair; you should be able to choose from many different faces, hair styles, personal/customized hair colour (including streaks, greying temples, etc.), sets of clothing (including different articles of it, meaning boots and pants are two totally different things). You should be able to choose your characters height, build (fat, skinny, athletic, average, muscular, Conan-sized or a veritable mammoth, for example) which would coincide with your stats (a Conan-sized man would have have to have a strength of 18/00, easily, while a more athletic person would have lower strength but a very high DEX score), and you shoudl be able to customize him in all the other ways, too. There should be many more voice sets to choose from than before (all sorts of them, but at the minimum definitely including the archetypes such as the gallant knight, rough-hewn dwarvish warrior, the immasculine but noble elvish ranger, the wise old wizard, the Merlin-esque sorcerer (think of the Merlin from the early 1980's British movie, "Excalibur"), the unscrupulous thief, etc.)
    -There should be many more portraits to choose from, none of them dorky, as a lot of the ones from previous BG and generally Infinity Engine games weren't that appealing.
    -For knight-ish sorts, there should be game rules implemented from Pendragon meaning your guy gets chivalry points for being polite but may lose valour points which effect what the character is capable of. Similarly, defending a lady's honour or whatever by refusing the orders of the King would cause you to lose chivalry points (or whatever, you get the idea, since I don't have Pendragon and have never played it but I read about it and it looks like it's got some good ideas) but gain valour points.
    -You should be able to meet all the famous NPC's, including having ones like Drizzt Do'Ourden (who would definitely NOT be made using a face, body type, appearance, etc. choosable by the player/you and would be built out of a totally diffferent, separate, personal model) as a member of your team. However, their should be no Elminster because he's a blatant Gandalf-ripoff.
    -Every priest should be able to choose a particular god, which should be the sole determining factor for absolutely all of his spells. Priests must become or stay a certain alignment/reputation to choose or keep a specific god (one who chooses Thor cannot be evil, since in the Eddas, Thor was a heroic/goodly god who brought people a lot of luck and was the protector of Mankind against the fierce giants and other monsters of ancient Nordic legend). Similarly, all characters should be able to choose a god (but also can only choose or keep ones that don't conflict with their alignment/reputation) which would give them special bonuses and minuses.
    -There should be many classes, not just the same old warrior, knight, wizard, thief and priest. They should all be very effective and fun to play so that you'll want to do the game over again many times to try them all out, and each comes with its own perks and flaws.
    -You should be able to have a pet (a knight could have a falcon which would spy on enemies for him as he is not dishonest to sneak around, himself, for example), and also have a mount for both quicker travel (say that you can't be ambushed while on horseback), and also combat where you would get special bonuses. Said mounts should range from the ordinary (a horse, obviously), to the exceptionally exotic or unusual like a dragon, gryphon, unicorn, etc.

    If I think of any other things, I'll let you folks know.

    [ January 26, 2005, 21:27: Message edited by: Nogoodnamesleft ]
     
  2. Sarevok• Gems: 23/31
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    ouch that is so difficult to read!
     
  3. Western Paladin Gems: 10/31
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    I respectfully disagree that more endings = better and that more nonlinearity = better. In my opinion, the best RPG ever made was Final Fantasy IV (released as Final Fantasy II on the Super NES), even though it held your hand and led you through the storyline. (And even that had some choice - you could do the Sylph Cave, Mithril Town, and the Land of Summoned Monsters in any order or not at all). But it made you feel something. I cried when Tellah died. With tears seriously rolling down my cheeks. And I got an actual adrenaline rush when fighting Zeromus.

    The point here is that I find that if games have too many choices involved, they can be just as un-enjoyable (is that a word?!) as if they have too few choices. Icewind Dale II for me handles the storyline very well, even if it's a little long-winded at times, but has very little in the way of character development and interaction. Plus I love the character creation system. (That's one area where I don't mind having lots of choices.) Baldur's Gate II has incredible characterization, but often I could hardly figure out what the hell was going on and where I was supposed to go and what I was supposed to do. For me the ideal PC role-playing adventure would have something of each of those two in it.
     
  4. Rednik Gems: 21/31
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    If you don't want choices, either play strictly on consoles or move to the adventure genre.

    What makes crpgs "role-playing" games is the fact that you can play a role and make choices that will affect the storyline. I don't want my hand held for the entirety of a game. If I want to play out the specific role of a character, there's always Gordon Freeman in HL2.
     
  5. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Um, who is Frank Welker?
     
  6. Sarevok• Gems: 23/31
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  7. Shalladeth Is it ignorance or apathy? I don't know and I don'

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    Agree and disagree...I'm all for beefing up the graphics, but I don't need everything in 3D. I personally love some of the static backgrounds in the IE games.
     
  8. Beren

    Beren Lovesick and Lonely Wanderer Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I actually found very little to disagree with in BG2. Its one of the few games where I got far more than my money's worth. Be that as it may:

    1) Definitely 3.5e, which in my opinion is far than 2e.

    2) Addition of prestige classes. Only NWN has taken the plunge thus far. But even then, they were a little skimpy imho. What I'd like to see is the prestige classes from the DMG, other Forgotten Realms books (like Faiths of Faerun), and possibly from other books like the Book of Exalted Deeds and the class specific books so long as they don't conflict with the Forgotten Realms setting.

    3) I'm sick of Drizzt Cameos. It was fun the first time during the Menzoberranzan game that used the Mindscape engine, but its far too cliched by now. Nuke Drizzt out of this one.

    4) Dragons that actually have a real chance of blasting your party into oblivion. The problems with BG2 dragons were considerable, cool powers but too little hit points to use them, lame scripting, etc. Hopefully the 3.5e rendition of dragons does justice to the aura they're supposed to convey in a fantasy setting.

    That's all I can think of at the moment.

    [ January 26, 2005, 18:40: Message edited by: Beren ]
     
  9. Nogoodnamesleft Gems: 1/31
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    Hmm, most excellent feedback, all. Some other ideas of mine:
    -When you want your characters to sleep or leave an area, you should not have to "gather your party before venturing forth". In other words, when you have not all of your characters in an inn and you want them to sleep, you can choose either for only the ones in the inn to sleep, or for all of them to sleep in the inn even though they're not all in there.
    -Same for when you want to leave an area. You should be able to leave an area without gathering all of your characters, meaning you can have different characters in different parts of the world, if desirable, and if only one character goes to the edge of an area screen to leave, you can still choose for only him to leave or for all of them to leave.
    -You should be able to have up to ten guys in your party, not only six.
    -I also enjoyed the static environments in the IE games, but it could stand to have more going on in the background.
    -Actually, you're right. Drizzt Do'Ourden is over-used. In fact, in my opinion, he sucks balls and is an overly politically correct fag who comes from a society dominated by women (*whiplash noise*) who he was routinely beaten by. Not to mention that not only do Salvatore's characters suck, but quite a few of them are ripped off (Bruenor is a Gimli ripoff, Wulfgar is ripped off from The Mighty Thor, Regis is ripped off from several hobbits, especially since he's got a little magic item that controls people's minds and had a big quest about it, that stupid cat thing is, well, stupid, and Cattie-Brie is a strong woman, which is not even excusable), as are the situations he puts them in.
     
  10. LeFleur Gems: 5/31
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    since it will be a prequel i don't want to see Misnc and Jan, though i must admit they are hilarious it just doesn't feel right to see them when they should not have been born yet. (Jan might actually be old enough but still)

    I would rather see some known faces who could actually have been there in the prequel, such as the adventurers Ribald Barterman and Samuel thunderburp :) .
    Maybe some young order-of-the-bleeding-hart guys who appear in BG2 as high members.
    Or maybe an evil mage called Tolgerias who is very annoying but escapes your wrath in the end, that way it is more fun to whack that guy in BG2 ;) This list could go on for 5 pages but i think you see what i mean, just guys with a side role who are fun to see for veterans like us.

    And it would be wonderful if the game had the same replayability as BG2, seeing as how much people still play that one, its time for another classic!
     
  11. The Shaman Gems: 28/31
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    Hm, just as long as such guys are not too many and don't still the show. Even if prequel in plot, it should be a separate game with its own happenings and characters.
     
  12. SCKnight Gems: 2/31
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    [​IMG] Hello everyone. My name is SCKnight. I've been a fan of the Baldur's Gate series since I got Baldur's Gate I and its expansion, Tales of the Sword Coast, for Christmas in 1999. Last year I bought Baldur's Gate II and Throne of Bhaal expansion pack. I'm glad that they're making a Baldur's Gate 3. I have to disagree with you, Nogoodnamesleft, but I have found that the 3.5 D&D rules are much easier to understand than are the 2nd AD&D rules. The one thing I didn't like about Baldur's Gate I and II was the fact that there was no turn-based combat. I've always preferred turn-based combat over real-time combat. If they do put turn-based combat in Baldur's Gate 3, I do hope it's very similar to the combat system used in the Temple of Elemental Evil (TOEE). Some things that I would like to see in the new Baldur's Gate game, would be:

    1) Just like in TOEE, you can pick your character's height, weight, hair style and color. However, I would want us (the players) to be able to choose from many more different hair styles than there were in TOEE. Furthermore, they (the people making Baldur's Gate 3) should keep the option of choosing our characters' skin color. We should also be able to edit (type in the numbers) our characters' height and weight. I also hope they use better voice sets in the new Baldur's Gate game than in the previous Baldur's Gate games. I really like the Honest Fighter voice set from TOEE and the HW Male 2 voice set from IWD II. They better have those voice sets in BG 3.

    2) They should increase the maximum number of party members you can have from six to seven.

    3) It would be great if they used the character dolls from TOEE instead of the ones they been using in the Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale games. In my opinion, TOEE's character dolls are much better than the BG and IWD character dolls.

    4) Just like in TOEE, the characters can buy clothing and other equipment that changes their character dolls' appearances (i.e. the Wizard's Robes, Farmer's Outfit, cloaks, gloves, boots, hats, helmets, etc.).

    5) Romances! I really liked the Romance Quests from Baldur's Gate II. It would be a shame if BG 3 didn't have them.

    6) The option to pick our characters' deity. That was a feature used in both TOEE and Neverwinter Nights. However, this option should be similar to how they did it in NWN, which was that they allowed you to type in whatever deity you wanted to give to your character.

    That's basically all I would like to see in Baldur's Gate 3.
     
  13. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Really? I find 6 too many as it is.
     
  14. Osiris Gems: 1/31
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    -First of all, not a prequel! IMHO, it should be a sequel set a few decades into the future. The taint of Bhaal got loose and corrupted a new batch of Bhaalspawn or the gods are waging a war between each other and the PC has to choose his/her side or something else.
    -Please, no Drizzt!! I don't want to kill him over again!
    -A bigger party.
    -More character customisation.
    -Romances.
    -Old Minsc telling "madman" tales of his travels across the realms, fighting evil with a famous Bhaalspawn.
    -A lot more NPCs.
    -More areas to explore.
    -Books of the Bhaalspawn war. It would be nice to read my history.
    -Importable save, which affects the storyline, depending on the PCs actions in the previous games.
    -3D engine, that allows both isometric and behind-me viewpoints.
    -Shops for casual things, such as food, clothes, trinkets, etc.
    -Subraces, i.e. elves and half-elves would be divided into drow, high and wood elves, etc.
    -More dialogue with voice acting.
    -Strongholds.
    -Slight changes to the storyline with each playthrough. It gets tedious having to do the same quests with just different classes/races/NPCs.

    Feel free to comment on any of my suggestions.
     
  15. Nogoodnamesleft Gems: 1/31
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    I hate that Bhaalspawn thing. It was stupid. It makes the game feel very pre-determined and to be blunt I don't like it. But what would be interesting for picking skin colour would be if the character's physical and facial features actually comply with it, EG a black guy actually looks like a black guy, not a white guy with just a white guy's skin colour. You should also be able to pick different shades of each skin type meaning a white guy could be average, an albino, a fair-skinned northman or a bronzed savage like Conan. And personally, I want this to be in Faerun but I want it to be based moreso in the areas similar to western and perhaps northern Europe meaning similar to the Sword Coast. To be blunt, I want this game to have the same very basic design concept as the original Baldur's Gate.
     
  16. toughluck Gems: 8/31
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    1. About gods -- it should be a drop-down list of deities, and it should affect the game in a real way instead of just saying: "I'm a worshipper of Navel," or anything as stupid. Furthermore, having an actual god could affect the game by:
    -- granted abilities if the player strives to a path laid by that god;
    -- more cleric professions;
    -- more paladin professions;
    2. It would be best that the game would not be associated with original BG/2 in any way. Nada. It should be set somewhere around Calimshan, Waterdeep or even Kara-Tur (to move as far away as possible from BG/2 region). Waterdeep preferred -- more city areas, which I really liked.
    3. Do not go against the canon. Bhaal is dead. If his essence was dropped, it is gone forever. If charname ascended, there's no way it would corrupt. Time of Troubles happened once, and should not be repeated.
    4. 4-6 people maximum in a party. This makes the choice much more difficult, and makes roleplaying a romance more real. "Sorry Jaheira, I love you, but since you suck in combat, I have to drop you from the party to make room for a more useful character, I'm sure you understand." The more difficult the choice, the better.
    5. 3.5E rules! Complete with sub races, professions, prestige classes (please, include as many as possible!!!), and so on.
    6. Modified Aurora Engine. I liked it, but the interface MUST be reworked to accomodate the needs of leading a party. Basically, it requires more flexible camera moving.
    7. Casual shopping -- could be interesting, but PLEASE, do not make it like in Daggerfall, where there was one tailor's in a city who stocked only one type of clothing. There should be a hierarchical menu, with basic categories splitting to more detailed ones (male//female--trousers/shirts/shoes/...//dresses/shirts/skirts/...--etc.--...--...--colours) for those inclined to do so.
    8. More dialogue. If that means conserving space, by all means skip voice acting. It is nice, but it always ends up as too little. One line at the start of a dialogue and nothing else later? On the other hand, some dialogues (in crucial moments) should be fully voiced. Skip romance voicing if you must (except for crucial moments in them, to know the tone -- a flunky job with Jaheira romance, I never felt the accusative/attacking tone in her lines), but if you voice, make sure that you voice the crucial dialogues entirely.
    9. Shop for items other than personal:
    -- mounts -- horses for larger folk, ponies for smaller ones, how about mythical ones, like pegasi or griffins (that's why I insist on smaller parties). If the characters have mounts, they should either mount them, or lead them. Just to add realism, add stables in front of taverns where the characters have to leave their mounts. Also -- no possibility of entering dungeons on/with mounts. They have to be left somewhere, with the risk of them running off (if left untied) or being slaughtered/eaten (if tied down).
    -- food -- nothing fancy, but just the fact of having rations (which would come in different types) would add realism. There would no longer be a chance of resting in a dungeon as long and as often as the players wish to -- the food would either rot or end. Same goes for water. Enough water? They will live. No water? They will die. Poisoned water? A dillema. Being poisoned? Cure poison, but cause half the water to vanish from the body. In fact, they could make a system that would not substract hit points, but rather poison body water. 100% poison -- die.
    What if some character is in a dungeon somewhere? Maybe you should leave one character in an inn (to get good rest as often as needed, without interruption), and the rest in the dungeon? No. The party needs to stay in one place to rest there. It's only logical.
    And the one behing that cell door that you're unable to budge should also move?
    I respectfully disagree. While they're at it, they could make you able to gather a thousandstrong army?
    This I agree with. Especially on market squares -- people should pass, align in queues, talk to shopkeepers, then disappear through the gates, etc.
    You're also right about Salvatore...

    Oh yeah, and I agree that less political correctness should be present. If somebody has something against (e.g.) homosexuals, let them voice the opinion, and do so loudly and without any hesitation nor reservation. Ultimatum? By all means! And do not go the way that 'Chloe mod' author went. Chloe is more intelligent (true in stats) and wiser (not in stats, but her dialogue reflects INT=24 and WIS=24) than Keldorn, so she trounces him in every conversation. If you want politically_correct_characters make them believeable, as in -- how would a mediaeval community accept them -- and if you want them to have the upper hand in each conversation, give them INT 18, WIS 18 and CHA 18, not (in NO WAY!!!) just scripting their responses. And do not make them assume traditional roles (that INT/WIS/CHA 18 woman character, who is a lesbian and feminist MUST be a fighter, ranger, or barbarian, just to make a point, even though her STR/CON/DEX are all <6). Make each character believeable rather than say: 'believe in them because we scripted them so.'
     
  17. Nogoodnamesleft Gems: 1/31
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    A couple more things-
    1. You should be able to summon unlimited monsters like in the 1st BG.

    2. The game should come with two totally different setting available: real time (my favourite) and turn-based. The turn-based mode should actually have all the positive qualities of an actual turn-based system; it shouldn't simply be the game setting itself on pause.
     
  18. toughluck Gems: 8/31
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    Another thing: make stealth useful and easy to use. Not that you have to turn off AI, then choose to hide in shadows for every rogue or ranger, cast invisibility on those that cannot sneak, and so on. It should be easy and automated, like a global party button of sneaking -- mages cast invisibility on everyone, and finally themselves, thieves hide in shadows, and you're ready.
    Make more than 50% certain encounters in the game NOT obligatory. Ie. no powerful magical items on that nondescript group of goblins, no quest items on them either.
    Make it so that the players, when faced with a choice: "tank or sneak," choose to sneak from time to time. In PnP RPGs, you don't win every fight. In cRPGs, it seems, you have to fight your way through the game.
    Oh, and more or less successfully sneaking should award the party some xp points -- as much as fighting, in some cases more (high level parties).
     
  19. Rolsuk Fryulee Gems: 13/31
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    And don't make hiding in shadows make you invisible so you can go where you want, make it more realistic. Make so theives actually have to hide in shadows while they have their ability on, not just be able to walk in front of someone then attack them.

    Nogoodnamesleft- summoning should rely on level. The more powerful the mage the more he should be able to summon, becaue in FR pathetic magelings can't summon hordes. But powerful mages should be rewarded with more summonings, and conjureres should get bonuses aswell.
     
  20. Velete Gems: 1/31
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    as long as it isnt hack n slash:p
     
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