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What a load of ...

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by Taluntain, Dec 16, 2003.

  1. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Make your own judgement: link

    A few highlights:

    Amazing how with Il, military force is a last resort...
     
  2. reepnorp

    reepnorp Lim'n Lime Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    I really doubt that he'll be getting much of a fair trial no matter where he goes! Especially in the US, he's definately screwed.
     
  3. Shazamdude Gems: 5/31
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    There is no way that he should be tried in a US court under US law, and I doubt that he will be. There is also no way that he's going to get anything remotely resembling a "fair" trial, and and to be honest, I have trouble finding tears for him. Let's face it, Saddam Hussein is not exactly Mr. Nice Guy. Regardless of any facts such as the U.S aidng his dictatorship by selling him weapons and whatnot, the guy was still a brutal dictator, and I hope he gets what's coming to him. It's just a shame that Bush is going to use this to buy 4 more years in the white house, though.
     
  4. Shura Gems: 25/31
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    Let's just hope against all hope that Bush does not get another 4 years as the president...
     
  5. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    "Brutal dictator, liar, deceiver and murder" and "fair trial". Nice. He cannot be trusted to speak truth under oath. So what? So this part can be dispensed with. Right? What's next? Perhaps there's some evidence missing, but then it's pretty obvious, so why bother getting evidence? He didn't let inspectors in, so must have had WMD. He would have let them in if he didn't have WMD, wouldn't he?

    News: no matter what, he didn't start the war.

    The logic used to lend credit to opposite points is simple:

    9/11 was an act of war against the US

    AND it was committed by terrorists

    ERGO: terrorists committed an act of war against the US

    ERGO: terrorists started war against the US

    AND Saddam had ties with terrorists

    ERGO: Saddam was on war with the US, anyway

    ERGO: The invasion is his fault and his guilt. In legal sense.

    Unbeatable, isn't it?
     
  6. Spellbound

    Spellbound Fleur de Mystique Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    Right....him coming from the highest death penalty state in the country (along with Florida)...you can bet it's important to him. (Better have a drool bucket ready on that day.)
     
  7. Grey Magistrate Gems: 14/31
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    No, the logic flows like this:

    9/11 was an act of war against the US

    AND it was committed by terrorists

    ERGO: terrorists committed an act of war against the US

    ERGO: terrorists started war against the US

    AND these terrorists proclaimed their commitment to wreaking further death and destruction

    AND these terrorists plotted to procure WMD for that purpose

    AND only three countries in the world both opposed the US and were constructing WMD

    AND those countries were Iraq, Iran, and North Korea

    ERGO: the likeliest way for terrorists at war with the US to acquire WMD was from these countries that already opposed the US

    ERGO: a necessity in the war on terror was to neutralize these three sources of WMD

    ERGO: North Korea could be neutralized by its neighbors and Iran could be neutralized by the IAEA, but Iraq refused to be neutralized by the UN

    ERGO: war with Iraq was a necessary step to block terrorists from acquiring WMD.

    I love the word ergo! It's so ergonomic!
     
  8. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

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    Yes, Bush is turning this into a media circus himself. He's trying to milk as much political mileage as he can out of all this. Believe me, some of us here are working really hard to get this guy out of office. Still, I've said over and over again on this board, the mainstream media is solidly behind almost everything this guy does. And that has been the most difficult part of all this. Real debate has been muted in very real and unexpected ways. Everything Shrub puts on is a media extravaganza and it seems there's no end in sight.

    Some of us knew that the capture of Saddam would help Shrub. Hell, it took long enough. But the media here has gone wild over this thing. I feel like I'm in Munchkin Land, with everyone singing a chrous of "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead." Maybe I am in Oz, and sometime soon I'll wake up in the real America again.

    [ December 16, 2003, 07:09: Message edited by: Chandos the Red ]
     
  9. Hacken Slash

    Hacken Slash OK... can you see me now?

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    I think that if Bush gains another 4-year endowment from the American people, we will see, during that time, some more concrete action taken against NK. Much of the US rapid deployment elite forces are engaged in Afganistan and Iraq...do we go after NK now with National Guard?

    I also think that it will be carefully done concurrent with a strengthening of relations between the US, Japan and PRC...I mean who are Kim's missiles a greater threat to, anyway? I believe current intel shows them a threat to the mainland of Alaska and maybe NW US. Perhaps we may see US and Chinese forces acting together to bring an end to this renagade regime.
     
  10. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

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    You mean 4 more wars? I can hardly wait... :rolleyes:
     
  11. Spellbound

    Spellbound Fleur de Mystique Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    Political pitch? I'd say, :lol: What the article doesn't mention is that later in that press conference he raises his fist and says "on to 2004!" or words to that effect, bowed his head and held up his hands as if to stem the applause - except there wasn't any, just a cough or two. As his eyes peeked up under raised eyebrows from his bowed head , the awkward moment passed and he went on to select another reporter for more questions.

    The timing of this capture is just too coincidental to the polical events over the past few days, imo. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they knew exactly where Saddam was hiding for weeks, but waited to do the unveiling at a time that would give Bush maximum political effect.
     
  12. Shralp Gems: 18/31
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    [snip]

    "Saddam was being hidden until just the right time!" Give me a break. Bush could've used his capture months ago. There's nothing opportune about this particular time. If anything it would've been better to wait and take some of the spotlight off of the Democractic primaries.

    Yeah, Tal. "Last resort." Just like in Iraq we waited until nearly twenty resolutions had been passed and over a year after we said "this is your last chance."

    Yeah, Chandos. Four more wars sounds fine to me if it ends up with the country more safe. Oh, do you believe in fighting to defend your country?

    [Warning pending.] -Tal

    [ December 16, 2003, 19:46: Message edited by: Taluntain ]
     
  13. Sir Belisarius

    Sir Belisarius Viconia's Boy Toy Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder

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    [​IMG] Whatever happened to "Made for Lovin'?" :hippy:
     
  14. Sojourner Gems: 8/31
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    Absolutely. Wars of aggression are a different matter.
     
  15. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

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  16. Spellbound

    Spellbound Fleur de Mystique Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    Shralp -- fighting to defend our country against WHAT? Perceived threats, hearsay, some old man in a rat hole? For god's sake....those things exist all over the world! Are you saying we should invade every country that gives the slightest indication that they are pro-terrorist??? That's purely ludicrous (unless you're into the Bush flavor of world domination...oh, and the resulting world peace that would come of it,of course. :rolleyes:
     
  17. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Not every country, of course... Only those which can be conquered with a minimum of casualties, have plenty of natural resources (preferrably oil), or look good for Bush's image (but this last is an exception to the rule; the positive publicity alone is not nearly enough for Bush to go wage a war). It's not like Bush would even ever have sent troops to Afghanistan if Osama didn't happen to be there. The population there really hit the jackpot - they got rid of the Talibans and won't even have to give anything back - considering they have nothing to give.

    You don't make the same mistake (in the sense of a war without profit) twice. Iraq is a logical counterweight to the war in Afghanistan which only cost money and provided no real interest on the investment, apart from the scattering of the Talibans. Not that it was that costly, considering how short it was.
     
  18. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    There absolutely will be further military conflict, especially if Bush gets re-elected, which is almost a certainty. Short list of countries (in no particular order):

    Syria, Iran, North Korea

    What many people don't understand is that Iraq is just a starting point. Bush wants to "spread democracy" across the Middle East, by force if necessary. Afghanistan and Iraq were the first, but most likely not the last.
     
  19. Mystra's Chosen Gems: 22/31
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    You were joking right? The US has been involved in Afghanistan for the last 30 odd years.
     
  20. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    I'm talking about Bush's part, obviously.
     
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