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Watcher's Keep is hard... Help!

Discussion in 'BG2: Throne of Bhaal (Classic)' started by corbulo87, Jun 28, 2002.

  1. corbulo87 Gems: 8/31
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    [​IMG] i am at the final seal and have all keys, and i am getting smashed by all those monsters (beholders, etc) and humanoids that noone likes. i have me (lv 33(?) swashy with scimitars), sarevok, aerie - my only spellcaster (pathetic, huh), and haer dalis with carsomyr (hehheh).

    i am in need of help!!!
     
  2. First of all change your party.Also the levels and equipment will help me solve your problem.
     
  3. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

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    Well, a party change might not be the only solution. Try to use traps, spells like skulltrap, glyphe of warding and the symbols to secure your position. The explosion trap is great - it will disperse the enemies sou you can try to take them out one after another and not alltogether.

    There are beasts which are immune to magical weapons - try to cast spell protection removers on them or try to attack them with normal ones (though I haven't tries that yet). Use the really heavy artillery your spellcasters have, like meteor swarm, etc. I used a most of these tactics here and then in these fights, you might move fast for hit and run guerrilla tactics though :D
     
  4. Earl Grey

    Earl Grey Mmm... hot tea! Veteran

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    [​IMG] I did that battle yesterday with my soloing F-24/M-20 (on Core Rules). This is Isabeau d'Anjou (check out Creativity Surge for more) who is soloing from BG1 to end of ToB. :)
    I had to reload this battle once - the first reload :grr: since since she started BG2, which says something about how hard this battle can be.

    * Here is what I did *

    F-24/M20

    Str: 20
    Dex: 20
    Con: 18
    Int: 20
    Wis: 22
    Cha: 11
    HP: 145

    Equipment:
    Weapon 1 - Flail of Ages +4
    Weapon 2 - Crom Faeyr
    Shield - Shield of Harmony
    Neck - Amulet of Power
    Body - Robe of Vecna
    Hands - Bracers AC3
    Head - Circlet of Netheril
    Ring - Ring of Gaxx
    Ring - Ring of Earth Control
    Waist - Belt of Inertial Barrier
    Feet - Boots of Speed

    Quick Slots:
    1. Book of Infinite Spells (Spell Turning)
    2. Clay Golem Manual
    3. Spider Figurine

    Fighter HLA:
    1 Whirlwind
    4 Greater Whirlwind
    1 Hardiness
    1 Resist Magic
    1 Power Attack
    1 Critical Strike
    1 Smite

    Summon:
    Two Skeleton Warriors (Animate Dead) and one or two Invisible Stalkers.

    Buff up with defensive spells:
    (I always follow this routine before entering a new door, a new area etc.)

    Stoneskin (always on)
    Prot f Fire
    Prot f Cold
    Spell Turning
    Resist Fear
    Prot f Petrification
    Blur
    Fireshield (Red or Blue)
    Mirror Image
    Improved Invisibility
    Prot f Magic Energy
    Prot f Evil
    Hardiness (Fighter HLA)
    Mordenkainen's Sword - should be your fifth and final summons, a Planetar is a nice alternative. :)

    All of these (yes, it's a lot, but a sloppy adventurer is a dead adventurer, especially when solo) will last 15 rounds or more after the last spell has been cast.

    I usually keep the sequencers loaded as below and make no claim to have found the perfect combinations, but you could customize them for this battle.

    Spell Trigger:
    Pierce Magic + 2x Lower Resistance
    Spell Sequencer:
    3x Skull Trap
    Minor Spell Sequencer:
    2x Magic Missile
    Chain Contingency:
    Pierce Shield + 2x Abi Dalzim's Horrid Wilting

    Battle starts
    The three enemies on the right side - The Huntress, Amerilis Zauviir and Xei Win Toh - I took out first by casting my Time Stop and then using whirlwinds to hack them to pieces.
    When the Time Stop was over, by far the most dangerous opponent is the Hive Mother so focus everything on her(it?). Breach is likely needed and perhaps also a Khelben's Warding Whip or a Ruby Ray. After Breaching, chop away using whirlwinds whenever possible. This is IMHO the most dangerous part of the battle.
    With the Hive Mother down only Nalmissra (a Tanar'ri) and Y'tossi as well as anything they may have summoned remain. It should be fairly easy to handle that.
    Note:
    There was no time to use any of the spell sequencers. The Chain Contingency and the Contingency can be extremely useful, but unfortunately I didn't take note of what effect the Abi Dalzim's, in my Chain Contingency, had.

    [This message has been edited by Earl Grey (edited June 28, 2002).]
     
  5. Volar Blackmane Gems: 16/31
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    A thief, bard, fighter and cleric/mage? Ewww. Get another fighter and a pure mage? :p

    But seriously, use all sorts of defensive spells on Sarevok, who will tank and take the hits (quaff a lot of healing potions).

    The swashbuckler should hang back a bit behind the fighter and assist in any attacks.

    Aerie should cast timestop (not necessary), a planetar (a must, makes life much easier), and as many horrid wiltings as she can memorize. You might try casting protection from fire on the fighter, then fill the place with delayed and normal fireballs. With only four partymembers, summon, summon, and summon some more. Skeletal warriors, aerial servants, elementals (as cleric spell), celestials. Then haste everyone.

    Haer'Dalis can cast all appropriate attack spells he has, then stoneskin, mirror image, use any defensive spells and finally cast Tenser's Transformation. The high level of bards combined with this level-dependent spell makes a killer. If you feel like it, throw in an offensive spin and watch heads fly.

    And use those golem manuals/iron horns of valhalla/miscellaneous summon items. Just remember five summons is max, so don't waste any. Hold back on some for reinforcements.
     
  6. Earl Grey

    Earl Grey Mmm... hot tea! Veteran

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    [​IMG] Time Stop, while imho one of the two best spells in the game (the other being Wish) requires planning.
    If your spellcaster is also a good fighter, it's easy, you can use the time to hack and slash in peace. If not, then you must make good plans for which spells you will use during the Time Stop.
     
  7. shadows Gems: 4/31
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    i beet watchwers keep with a lev 25 chara so im sue you can do it.... you can also not kill the demogor5gon... im not sure wich gives better xp though...
     
  8. Earl Grey

    Earl Grey Mmm... hot tea! Veteran

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    [​IMG] @Shadows
    In what way would you say your post was helpful? Please be a wee bit more specific next time. :shame:
     
  9. StressedE Gems: 15/31
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    If you're really having trouble with a fight, I have a great tip. Autopause. Turn on the end of round and target gone option, turn of AI and you will have like 100X more control, although it will be a bit slow.
     
  10. corbulo87 Gems: 8/31
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    [​IMG] sorry i havent replied, my computer has been playing up on me...

    as for casting timestop, i cant, as aerie is SO INCOMPETENT!!! she is SO pathetic at EVERYTHING that i CANT STAND IT ANYMORE!!! i think i may kick her out for edwin and/or anomen or jahiera, but being so high up in levels i hardly think it's worth it. oh, woe is me, my party is so miserably outnumbered and unskilled i dont think i can even compare to this rag-tag band of powerful beings. any suggestions on what to do with what ive got? or any suggestions on who to invite into my party?
     
  11. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Maybe you should go on with the rest of ToB and come back later. Seriously, this was the hardest battle for me in the entire game.
     
  12. StressedE Gems: 15/31
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    Or you could temporarily lower the difficulty setting
     
  13. corbulo87 Gems: 8/31
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    BTA:
    how do you get out of watcher's keep to do the rest of ToB, and

    StressedE: i currently have it on novice :wail: :cry:

    i give up, i'm going to start a new ToB game, post all replies to "New party for Throne of Bhall"

    [This message has been edited by corbulo87 (edited June 30, 2002).]
     
  14. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    You can leave Watcher's Keep at any time, on any level. They actually made it pretty easy to leave and come back.
     
  15. StressedE Gems: 15/31
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    Send me your savegame man, I'll have a look at it, maybe I can give you a few pointers.
     
  16. addertongue Gems: 1/31
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    here's an idea from one of the walkthroughs from this web site it's not myn but i think it will work

    Konstantin has a more magical strategy: All it requires is a Mage or a
    Sorcerer and the skull trap spell. I call this the chain reaction.
    Anyway, the best kind of fight is when you get the XP for free. So I had
    my thief set snares around the room and then using project image I had my
    Sorcerer pump the room full of skull traps about 12 in each of the places
    where the monsters would appear. This of course took a few minutes.
    Then I took a rest and cast all of my protective spells, and got ready
    for a fight. I carefully came up to the key thing (whatever it is) and
    turned the key. There was a laugh, then my screen froze for a few
    seconds as the skull traps were going off, when everything was finished
    all the dead guardians were dead. They did not touch me once.

    try that
     
  17. StressedE Gems: 15/31
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    If you're gonna play like that, you might as well use the killsword
     
  18. Earl Grey

    Earl Grey Mmm... hot tea! Veteran

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    [​IMG] I have to agree with StressedE.
    What if those that appeared had been friendly instead of hostile? This way you take the risk of killing someone important.
    If your character somehow can be sure an enemy is going to turn up I think saturating the area with Skull Traps can be ok. Maybe not the most challenging way to fight, but if go into role playing mode for a sec and put yourself in yoru characters shoes, wouldn't you take every action possible to get an edge? :)
     
  19. Rastor Gems: 30/31
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    I dislike playing with cheese, and at that level, changing your party would likely be a bad idea. Here's my advice:

    Have Sarevok and HD concentrate on the big guy first, Y'Tossi. They will take quite a bit of damage, so make sure their MR is as high as possible. By this point in the game, both should have 20% or more, HD will have at least 50 with that sword. Throw off time stop as quickly as possible, then pelt them with as many Wiltings, Comets, as possible. I'm against using other AoE spells as they will hit your guys, and that is not a good idea in this fight. Send the swashbuckler against the beholder while Aerie hits the marileth with as many breaches as possible. Lower resistance will also help against anyone here if you've got the slots for it. Have anyone that gets below half health chug healing potions and if need be, have Aerie cast greater restoration which will completely heal your entire party. Once Y'Tossi goes down, the fighter is the next target. I'll let you figure it out from here. Good luck.
     
  20. Beren

    Beren Lovesick and Lonely Wanderer Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Here was my strategy,

    It is important to note that these monsters are arranged around the seal in his fashion:

    Succubus The Huntress

    Marileth Drow Cleric

    Hive Mother Xie Toh

    It is important to keep in mind that the three monsters on the left hand side are the heavy duty magical threats, and have plenty of magical defences. Xie Toh and The Huntress are primarily physical combatants.

    So after preparing the the max, I have the party huddle at the left hand side of the seal. I then summon monsters to keep the monsters on the right hand side occupied. I positioned a Simulucram (from Vhailor's Helm) near where the Huntress will appear. I position an Astral Deva (magic resistance) near the Drow Cleric. I then position an Elemental Prince near the bottom right hand corner, which is the most likely to survive an attack from Xie Toh.

    Once combat starts, the party goes to work on the left hand side, doing anything and everything they can to both rip down the magical defences and hack them to death. I recommend having the party mage cast Time Stop for the very purpose of removing magical defences. Once the Succubus, Hive Mother, and Marileth are dead, it becomes a mop-up melee affair and certainly winnable.

    Hope this helps.
     
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