1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

Update: "Kids for Cash" And Why We Need Government Regulation

Discussion in 'Alley of Lingering Sighs' started by Chandos the Red, Feb 7, 2011.

  1. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Messages:
    8,252
    Media:
    82
    Likes Received:
    238
    Gender:
    Male
    I posted on this story a while back. And this is more than an update, but the demand that more government regulation is crafted, since we should never have to see a situation like this again, despite the phony cries of "free market" politics in our government:

    Get a load of this:

    This guy is a judge? WTF? This is what happens when money is the motivation for our government, rather than public service. An absolute disgrace. :mad: A "finders Fee," for selling kids in servitude?

    How many more times are we going to have to hear about a "breakdown in oversight" because the government doesn't have the nuts to stand up to these moronic lemmings who complain about "government regulation" of our society? Who else is going to do it? Business? That profits from it? What a joke.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41448385/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
     
  2. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,407
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    231
    Gender:
    Male
    Public servants (well, anyone really :) ) should not be allowed such conflicts of interest. I'm amazed that the judge did't see it that way. Typically there are laws in place forbidding such things, and I guess that's why he's in court today.
     
  3. NOG (No Other Gods)

    NOG (No Other Gods) Going to church doesn't make you a Christian

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2005
    Messages:
    4,883
    Media:
    8
    Likes Received:
    148
    Gender:
    Male
    There are laws in place forbidding that sort of thing, and that is why he's in trouble now (among other things). This guy is a sleeze and I hope he get's decades. Thankfully, we have laws and regulations in place these days, unlike the dark ages of European criminal justice that Dickens wrote about.
     
  4. The Shaman Gems: 28/31
    Latest gem: Star Sapphire


    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2004
    Messages:
    2,831
    Likes Received:
    54
    Wow, it's been a while since I've heard of someone so deserving of the title "Sick *******." So he was getting "performance bonuses" for sentencing kids to the penitentiary. and he "didn't have a problem with the money?" I hope he feels the same way about getting a sentence of his own, no less harsh than the ones he used to give out.

    A couple of things seem particularly striking here, though. The first is the amount he got - nearly 3 million USD. If that's what a single judge got, imagine the amount of money made in the system, and how much goes for other "promotion" activities, such as lobbying, media campaigns, etc.

    I'm not sure exactly about some of the things he's being tried for, though - that the funds he took influenced his sentences, or that he took funds from an interested party in the first place? I think it is the former, but if there is no law regarding such a blatant conflict of interests this may be a problem in the future. This is a problem for public positions in general, especially when they are working in fields where they can influence public expenditure or can otherwise benefit or harm private businesses.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2011
  5. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2000
    Messages:
    10,140
    Media:
    63
    Likes Received:
    250
    Gender:
    Male
    The owner paying kickbacks to a judge for sentencing i.e. providing steady business in his prisons at taxpayer's expense? It underlines in one sentence everything that's wrong with private prions.

    Even when it isn't as perverse, corrupt and criminal as in this case - even judges just holding prison company stock, say as part of their 401k (not to mention tough on crime lawmakers), is a thing that must not be. Judges must not have a financial interest in sentencing. The judge should be sentenced harshly, to provide an example to demonstrate that such behaviour is Unacceptable with a capital U.

    No public official affiliated in any way should have a profit interest in law enforcement. For companies like this, zero-tolerance and mandatory sentencing policies are a bonanza (think of prison interests lobbying for harsh laws - say, for Arizona's immigration bill, tough drug laws in general and so forth - as them showing entrepreneurial spirit by 'aggressively entering into emerging markets'). The effectiveness, not to mention the fairness, of the approach in general is highly dubious. But it is good business, and reliable business since it is paid for with taxpayer dollars. After all, which politician wants to appear soft on crime in America? He'll have callous and defamatory attack ads up his ass in no time.
     
  6. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2003
    Messages:
    12,434
    Media:
    46
    Likes Received:
    249
    Gender:
    Male
    This is from the area where I grew up, and I can tell you that the not-so-Honorable Mark Ciavarella is going away for a long time. What wasn't mentioned in the article is there were a few other associate judges in on the deal too. They all pled guilty and turned state's evidence on Ciavarella (who was the worst offender) in exchange for lesser sentences. The other judges are expected to be put away for several months upon sentencing. Ciavarella is going away (if convicted) for about 20 years.
     
  7. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    Messages:
    4,147
    Likes Received:
    224
    Gender:
    Male
    It's a shame that the money filling their pockets was more important to these judges than realizing the consequences of the judgements they issued would have on these kids. I truly hope none of these kids are permanently scarred from the ordeals they endured. It stinks that in order to prosecute they let others cut a deal, though their actions were just as despicable. Such is nature of the beast, but it still leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
     
  8. LKD Gems: 31/31
    Latest gem: Rogue Stone


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2002
    Messages:
    6,284
    Likes Received:
    271
    Gender:
    Male
    I highlighted your spelling mistake. This mistake proves that you know nothing about anything anywhere. I learned that from an earlier thread! :p

    As for the second excerpt, I would really, really like to see an ad shoved up a politician's ass. Do they do things differently in Germany?

    Finally, in all seriousness, I have no problem with children being punished for acting like smug little bastards. I don't care if the girl was an "honours student", that's not a licence to flip off a cop. Betcha the little brat won't do it again. The disturbing part is that the judge was getting money off it. For that, he too needs punishment -- serious punishment. The 20 years sounds good to me. But not for the harsh sentences. He deserves it for taking bribes.
     
  9. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Messages:
    8,252
    Media:
    82
    Likes Received:
    238
    Gender:
    Male
    LKD - So she flipped off a cop Big damn deal. Freedom of expression. This isn't Iran, or China. At least I don't think it is. :hmm:
     
  10. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2003
    Messages:
    12,434
    Media:
    46
    Likes Received:
    249
    Gender:
    Male
    I agree. Last I heard, flipping someone off - cop or otherwise - is considered rather uncouth, but not illegal.
     
  11. 8people

    8people 8 is just another way of looking at infinite ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,141
    Media:
    74
    Likes Received:
    133
    Gender:
    Female
    [​IMG] In the UK you can spend a night in for verbally assaulting a police officer, including gesturing :D

    There's a fabulous instance of a man being arrested for calling a Police Horse 'Gay' though the court dropped the case :lol:
     
  12. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2000
    Messages:
    10,140
    Media:
    63
    Likes Received:
    250
    Gender:
    Male
    You learned well from your master, apprentice of whose-name-I-am-not-going-to-spell-out.
     
  13. LKD Gems: 31/31
    Latest gem: Rogue Stone


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2002
    Messages:
    6,284
    Likes Received:
    271
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't think expecting decent behaviour out of people means you have a totalitarian state a la China or Iran. IMHO, you stop antisocial crap early before it snowballs into worse stuff. Freedom of expression is important, but no freedom is absolute.
     
  14. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Messages:
    8,252
    Media:
    82
    Likes Received:
    238
    Gender:
    Male
    Oh, I agree. But the punishment was WAY over the top, for reasons that had nothing to do with the actual offense, obviously. Besides, how can you teach young people to respect authority, when the result is something like a legal system that promotes "kids for cash?" I once heard that "respect is earned." A system that has a lack of integrity deserves little respect from our young people.
     
  15. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    Messages:
    4,147
    Likes Received:
    224
    Gender:
    Male

    Chandos, the system always deserves respect, as it is our guiding light here in the States, or should be, as I believe our grandfathers would think so. Our young should be taught to respect it, but also to strive to improve it and question it when they don't understand or agree with it, to better understand it or fix wha tis wrong with it.
     
  16. LKD Gems: 31/31
    Latest gem: Rogue Stone


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2002
    Messages:
    6,284
    Likes Received:
    271
    Gender:
    Male
    Nicely said, Blades. This is the problem with a little knowledge being a dangerous thing. We tell out kids in Western societies: "You have freedom! You can do whatever you want!" and then we neglect to tell that that part of being a member of society involves certain rules that must be obeyed. Teens in particular are at a stage where they often cannot reconcile the fact that their freedoms don't mean that they can flout the societal structures that, in fact, safeguard their freedoms.

    I have ranted on this before, and I have to say that I have seen the tragic results of consequence free environments. The message kids often get is that they can deliberately break rules, mores, and norms and get away with it because "kids make mistakes" -- a mistake is when you don't know any better. Deliberately doing it, hoping you can weasel out of it later by claiming "I didn't know it was wrong", is a whole 'nother kettle of fish. It merits severe punishment. These kids need to be taught a lesson.

    Now, these cases may have been a little out of proportion, fair enough, and I've already made my feelings clear on the judge's motivations, but dammit kids need to know that they can't behave like idiots and get away carte blanche.
     
  17. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Messages:
    8,252
    Media:
    82
    Likes Received:
    238
    Gender:
    Male
    No, really, it doesn't always deserve respect, especially in this instance. The kids that LKD are ranting about were terribly let down by a system that was supposed to protect their rights and treat them with fairness. In the end, there's no excuse for it, no matter how many platitudes you heap upon it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2011
  18. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    Messages:
    4,147
    Likes Received:
    224
    Gender:
    Male
    Chandos, I agree that in this case the kids were served a plate of unkindness and unfairness. No arguments here. I simply meant that even after this, we shouldn't teach our kids to look past our system and treat it as it were nothing. I mean, no system will ever be perfect if those that apply it are imperfect. In this case, they were more than imperfect. They were monsters. But another in the same position can and will do better, hence improving the sytem. It's the individual that caused those terrible things that doesn't deserve their respect.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2011
  19. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Messages:
    8,252
    Media:
    82
    Likes Received:
    238
    Gender:
    Male
    BoV - I agree with the basic notion of what you saying. And I certainly agree with the notion that the system needs to be respected to move it forward towards reform. The only point I am trying to make is that if the system is broken, that it is difficult to say to our young ones that the system is worthy of the respect that we would like to see from them.
     
  20. The Shaman Gems: 28/31
    Latest gem: Star Sapphire


    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2004
    Messages:
    2,831
    Likes Received:
    54
    Sure, no one means carte blanche - although as I don't know the situation, I can't quite say how excessive the girl's reaction in this case was. However, when otherwise harmless disrespect for the "organs" can get you more than a hefty fine or a day or two community service, perhaps we are going too far. I'd say the young lady might mind her manners more if she had to pay, say, 500 dollars out of her pocket - or, via her parents, her pocket money.
     
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.