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Underaged abortion advised and made without parents knowing

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by chevalier, May 28, 2004.

  1. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    Traditionally, let's begin with a link:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/3709681.stm

    Apparently, the girl, aged 14, got pregnant with her boyfriend. The school's health staff scared the girl away from talking to her parents about the "accident". What is more, the health staff specifically stressed that the parent's wouldn't know anything when talking to the already intimidated girl.

    Under pressure, the girl agreed and they took her to the hospital. The mother somehow got to know about the things going on and intervened. She told the girl that she should carry the child, and also the boyfriend's parents insisted on the child being given birth. The girl was relieved and wanted her child to live, too. However, it was too late. The foetus was already cut from oxygen and suffocated (yeah, that's how they make abortions, very civilised), and the damage done couldn't be reverted at that point. The foetus was killed.

    The school claims that their staff aren't obligated under the law to inform parents when children get pregnant.

    What a wicked excuse! Not only had they not informed the mother of the girl, they exerted pressure on the girl to have abortion and also encouraged her to hide the fact from the parents.

    I would also like to raise one important point that was not addressed in the article: the boy and his parents were totally ignored. No one asked the underaged father if he wanted the child, no one even bothered contacting his parents.

    Who gave the school any right to decide for the child (the pregnant one, not the foetus)? Where did the father's rights go? What about the parents of the parents?

    What about the legal age? Since when are 14 year olds entitled to make decisions in this grave matters?

    Abortionist organisations speak a lot about pro-lifers enforcing their anti-abortion views on the whole of the society and acting holier-than-thou. However, in this case, the school usurped authority and forced what they thought was morally right without giving a damn about anyone else and their beliefs, "convincing" the girl and skipping the parents altogether.

    I will keep an eye on this one and I hope to see prison sentences in the end.
     
  2. Sojourner Gems: 8/31
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    Since they become pregnant! However - there are mitigating circumstances:

    1) Pregnancy is risky. Women still die in childbirth, even in modern facilities. Add to that a girl really too young to carry - and you're talking about serious trouble.

    2) Are you certain the father is her boyfriend? Too often, a girl who becomes pregnant so young was sexually abused. Should the parents (the mother often does know) even be involved in this situation?
     
  3. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    They exercised undue pressure on the child that is correct. I do not think that is your main problem though chev, it is abortion in itself.

    If abortion is legal then I think the only persons it concerns are the parents. I would however advice everyone to talk it through with your parents if you are very young. That may not be possible at all times though. If someone is decided on an abortion and know that their parents are staunchly against it I see no reason to tell them.

    Keep in mind that this reasoning all stems from abortion being legal and is not an invitation for discussing the whole issue of abortion.
     
  4. Darkwolf Gems: 18/31
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    [​IMG] Provided the facts of the story are true, this is just flat out wrong, and I, as a parent, would be raising holy hell if it happened to my child! I am not with the right (and of course not with the left either!) on the issue of abortion, and I do not support minor's "rights" to an abortion without their parent's/guardian's knowledge and consent.
     
  5. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    Then parents should have been informed even more so... Too young to carry and to young to take care of the child on her own (I'm adding this one now), ERGO: too young to decide on her own.

    If she had been raped, it would have been mentioned. It's said she had sex with her boyfriend and the allegation is he was the father.

    Again, if a young girl gets raped, the parents are the first people to be informed and to provide her with all care and support she needs. And she needs a lot.

    If someone is so young that she can't sign a valid contract without her parents consenting, how is she to make decisions affecting her future on her own? Besides, laws and even constitutions interfere here, confirming parental authority over minors below legal age.
     
  6. Sojourner Gems: 8/31
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    Not necessarily for the former, especially the way it was reported, and the only impression I got for the latter was that he was assumed to be the father.

    Unless, the father is the rapist.

    Simple. Laws have little to do with childbirth. Do you need laws to breathe?
     
  7. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    Still, he was the only potential candidate and the probability was strong. He should have been informed and have had something to say.

    I was speaking about a pregnant girl's parents who should be informed at any rate.

    Abortion is not the same as removing a rotten tooth. Actually, they should contact the parents before removing a rotten tooth as well, let alone foetus.

    Some level of awareness and responsibility is required to decide if you want to carry or kill the foetus as well.
     
  8. Sojourner Gems: 8/31
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    When I said father, I meant her father, not the boyfriend.

    Neither is pregnancy! It is hard upon the body, epecially the body of a young girl who is still growing!

    Well, arguably, it takes more responsibility to carry the child to term. Who would you trust in this matter? Not the mother of the girl - she obviously already failed.
     
  9. Shazamdude Gems: 5/31
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    I agree that the school handled this situation very poorly. The parents certainly have a right to know about something like this, and it is not the school's place to decide if she keeps the baby or not.

    That being said, the school was doing the right thing in suggesting an abortion (but going about it the wrong way by pressuring her into it). She should be made aware that abortion IS an option, and that it may be the best option for her. Her parents, on the other hand, should also have a strong say in the matter, but they should not be able to make the decision for her. It IS her body, after all, and as Chev pointed out, a 14-15 year old carrying a baby to term could be a risky proposition. I don't think they should have the right to forbid her from getting one, as childbirth represents a very real threat to her life-- maybe this is what the school was thinking.

    If her and her boyfriend's parents insist on her having the baby, they had also better be fully prepared to raise the child, as a 14 year old girl is not suitable to raise a child. If they want her to have it so badly, they'd better be willing to give her the help she'll need.
     
  10. Sojourner Gems: 8/31
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    Did the school handle the situation poorly? That's debateable - all we have is the mother's hearsay. I don't believe the parents should be informed in every case - one reason I already gave. Another good reason is: HONOR KILLINGS - and yes, that happens even in the US (one case made the papers in Michigan a few years back).

    The fact the girl didn't confide in her mother speaks volumes to me.
     
  11. Iago Gems: 24/31
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    As I was in the Lyceanum, a girl from a neighbouring village, that was in a class one year behind got pregnant. She was about 16. She kept the baby and here good caring, loving and virtous parents kicked her out. She had to quit school and make it on her own. Not that their parents hadn't had enough money, they just couldn't live with the shame of the daughter. Indeed, the daughter had a lot of trouble getting money from her parents through the legal way, as here, the parents have to feed their children and finance a minimal education. No, really good parents, really. Babies from babies and parents with a certain attitude, that just doens't go well together.
     
  12. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    I don't know what the laws in the U.K. are like, but here in the U.S. the father has NO rights. According to the Roe vs. Wade ruling, the woman has the sole decision as to whether or not she has an abortion. Of course, that doesn't answer the question of if this child should have an abortion, but it is why the boyfriend or the boyfriend's parents weren't consulted.

    Just last year there was a case in Pennsylvania where a man wanted to prevent a woman who he got pregnant from having an abortion. It went to the State Supreme Court where the judges ruled unanimously that the decision to have an abortion was entirely up to the woman, and that the man had no claim on the fetus.
     
  13. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    Another reason why the parents were so desperately needed.

    How could the mother act if she hadn't been told anything? If you had a 14 year old daughter, would you ask her "aren't you pregnant?" every day? The school eliminated the mother from the process.

    See above. Moreover, the girl was suggested that trusting her mother could be a bad idea and was taken to hospital all in hiding from her mother. Imagine you have a 14 year old daughter and some school hides her from you and tells her trusting you might not be a good thing.

    Thanks for info, Aldeth. I would address this one, but it merits a separate thread. Hope you don't mind my taking it outside.
     
  14. Sojourner Gems: 8/31
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    Based on the mother's hearsay.
     
  15. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    The school intentionally misled the mother of the child by direct flat out lie.

    The mother couldn't talk to anyone because the school said the persons she needed to talk to were not accessible and they kept telling her to wait longer and longer - several minutes, next several minutes, an hour and so on.

    It was not even just done in secret, flat out lies were employed in the intentional deception of the mother of that underaged girl.

    The school not only failed to inform the mother and seek consent, the school usurped parental authority. First of all, it's not the school problem if a pupil gets pregnant.

    They acted out of fear that the mother would have forbidden the abortion, but the mother had every right to.

    Someone should rot in prison for that and some couple persons should be banned lifetime from working with children.
     
  16. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    This entire controversy comes back to what you think about abortion. We have a bunch of threads about that where the topic have been explored extensively but if people have more to say they shouldnt keep quiet. Trying to disguise it as something slightly different is just a tad silly in my opinion.
     
  17. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

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    Yes, the same parents who did not know that their 14 year old daughter was having unprotected sex. And at what age? Great, responsible parents here. So let's have them make more parental decisions. :rolleyes: This kind of poor parenting is bound to end in disaster for all involved.
     
  18. Hacken Slash

    Hacken Slash OK... can you see me now?

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    For those of you who support a "Womans right to chose"...go through the news story and substitute the words "assisted suicide" every where you see the word "abortion"...still make sense?

    Now take it a step further and substitute the word "homicide" for the word "abortion"...

    If you do this with an open mind, you may begin to appreciate the views of pro-lifer's, and see the gaps in your own logic. If you can't see it...then...whatever :rolleyes:

    @Chandos...your point is well taken, but don't cloud the issue of the school's sins with the failures of the parents.
     
  19. Sojourner Gems: 8/31
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    Apples and oranges.
     
  20. Register Gems: 29/31
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    Chandos, just because a kid screw up a bit doesn't mean that the parents are always bad. She have sex at the age of 14? Sure, they maybe can be bad parents, but you have no rights to say that every parent in the world that have had a child who had sex at the age of 14 are bad parents.


    On topic, I am not pro-abortion(only in extreme cases, lake rape and incest), so I am obviously enraged to see how a school could act like this. I'm with Chev on this one, let 'em rot in jail for murder.

    Also, HS, I don't think that comparision was very fair. It is a bit hard to explain, and I may edit this post later to do it, but like Sojourner said, apples and oranges.
     
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