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To flood or not to flood the Cloakwood mines?

Discussion in 'Baldur's Gate (Classic)' started by Dr_Asik, Nov 11, 2011.

  1. Dr_Asik Gems: 6/31
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    I've just noticed that I can enter Baldur's Gate even without flooding the Cloakwood Mines. I just need to kill Davaeorn. What would be the repercussions of not flooding the mines? I've seen every guide assume you have to do that, but is it an optional quest, or a prerequisite to any other?

    Thanks!
     
  2. Bsisi Gems: 5/31
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    I don't think there are any.
    When playing the game for the first few times I didn't notice that you can do it and everything went fine.
     
  3. Darion

    Darion Resident Dissident Veteran BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Good to know.
    I usually always flooded, thinking it'll prevent the buggers from reopening!
     
  4. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    The only repercussions of not flooding the mine is that the miner won't come up to you after you do it, and thank you. Therefore, you miss out on the reward, which is +2 reputation, and 2000 XP IIRC. Now reputation isn't so important that you couldn't get it to 20 even without doing that, and 2000 isn't such a mammoth amount of experience that you would be setting yourself back if you didn't do it, it's just that there's no reason not to do it.

    For all the chapter endings, there is a trigger event. Once you do the trigger, the next chapter automatically activates. Killing Daveraon is the trigger to end chapter 4 and start chapter 5. In theory, if you could manage to get the scroll out of Mulahey's chest without killing him, that would also take you to the next chapter. It's just that in the case of Mulahey, you get his symbol, which is what you bring back to town to get credit for the quest, and the Ring of Holiness, both of which are highly desirable at that point in the game.
     
  5. Dr_Asik Gems: 6/31
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    All right, good to know. Another related question I have is: why would you flood the mines in the first place? With Daevorn and everyone Iron-Throne related dead there, aren't you causing a lot of unecessary damage to the Sword Coast's economy in the future? I mean what's the point of doing that in the first place?

    The game actually lets you ask that question to one of the miners on the first level 1, who answers that the Nashkel mines are still doing fine. ... so what? Will you burn a city down because other cities still stand?
     
  6. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    No one knows that the Cloakwood mines have re-opened. You get a scroll from the bounty hunters you beat to get inside that says the ore mined is being taken out by a single person using numerous bags of holding. They do this so that the Flaming Fists don't find out about the operation. The only reason you find out about them is through the contact at Beregost, or by going through the bandits in Peldvale. No one not in the employ of the Iron Throne knows those mines are operational.

    The Iron Throne is stockpiling the ore as part of Sarevok's master plot to get involved in a war with Amn. The plan included tainting the ore at the Nashkel mines, so that the only ore being produced in the region would be from the Cloakwood mines. Flooding the mines makes your party responsible for foiling both aspects of that plan - the Nashkel mines are back in production after you do Chapter 2, and the Cloakwood mines are out of commission in doing Chapter 4.

    Also regarding trigger events - the trigger event in Chapter 5 is getting the book from Duke Eltan that gets you back into Candlekeep. So in theory you can finish Chapter 5 in less than a day (game time). If you aren't interested in doing the ton of missions within BG (not advisable) you can just do the missions you get from the Flaming Fist - kill a few dopplegangers and go through the Iron Throne's HQs, and be done with it. It could take your party longer to walk from Cloakwood to BG than it takes you do the missions once there.

    Here are the list of triggers for end of chapters:

    Chapter 1: Arrive in Naskel (or the Carnival - either works). No way you can avoid this.
    Chapter 2: Get the scroll in Mulahey's chest. I can't imagine how you could do this without fighting Mulahey. Even with a thief hiding in the shadows, you would become visible as soon as you open the chest.
    Chapter 3: Get the scroll in the chest in the fight in the main tent. Again, I don't see how you'd do this without activating the fight for the same reason.
    Chapter 4: Get the scroll from Daveron's corpse. (I suppose it's possible to pick his pocket in order to get it, which would obviate the need to kill him.)
    Chapter 5: Get the book from Duke Eltan that allows you re-entry into Candlekeep. You don't necessarily have to do the battle at the top of the Iron Throne's HQ. So long as you enter the Iron Throne HQs, you can go right back to Duke Eltan, and the option of saying that you found out about Iron Throne involvement, and that you need to go back to Candlekeep is a dialog option.
    Chapter 6: Escape the catacombs below Candlekeep - no way around that one.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2011
  7. Bsisi Gems: 5/31
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    Did you try to go around Nashkel and get to the mines from either west or east, then kill the guards to get inside? :)

    Anyway I noticed that as long as speedrunners did Nashkel, they did kill Mulahey and Daveron.
     
  8. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    I've never tried. It takes longer - both in game time and real time - to go around it.
     
  9. Dr_Asik Gems: 6/31
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    Very interesting. So the mines were abandoned? Does anyone know for how long?

    I my game, Chapter 5 begins as soon as I give the killing blow to Davaeorn. It's EasyTutu + fixpack + a bunch of minor tweaks though, but I suppose they wouldn't have changed the chapter trigger.

    ---------- Added 1 hours, 32 minutes and 26 seconds later... ----------

    Oh I found the answer myself, they were created by Yeslick and his clan of dwarves 125 years ago. They accidently flooded it though. It's only recently that Iron Throne's Rieltar learned of their existence, plugged the leak and re-opened them.
     
  10. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    :doh: You're right. It is the killing blow to Daveron that causes the start of the next chapter. Although it does beg the question: If you can pickpocket the key you use to flood the mine, does that work too? I must admit that I never avoided killing him. He has pretty decent loot on him, notably the bracers AC6, and quite a few scrolls to loot in the area. Still, if you were having a huge amount of difficulty in the fight, I wonder if it is possible?
     
  11. Dr_Asik Gems: 6/31
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    I'd be surprised if that was an alternative way of ending chapter 4. I tried, though, and I couldn't pickpocket him because he is hostile even before he sees you. I tried to charm him, but to no avail.
     
  12. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    I do think the game expects you to flood the mine. What I don't know is if you get the rep bonus and reward for flooding the mines, or (more likely IMO) for getting the slaves working as miners out.

    If you don't talk to the guy in the cells with Yeslick - the guy who you give money to get the guards to look the other way while the miners escape (I forget his name) - I don't know if you still get the reward. Although you certainly can still flood the mines either way.

    There's no reason you'd HAVE to talk to either of them - they can only be accessed by finding a secret door or by picking a locked door. So if you just kept going, you could miss them completely. (Similarly, you can miss just about all the fights on the next to last level of the mines if you head right for the stairs down to the final level.)

    So you could go down, kill Daveron, take the key back up to the miner who knows how to operate the seal, and then everyone on the lower levels die. It wouldn't make much sense to still get the rep bonus in that case.
     
  13. Bsisi Gems: 5/31
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    The miner who does the flooding mentions slaves below and when you return, he asks whether you freed them. I don't know if you can make him flood the mines with them down.
     
  14. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    Sure you can - I even did so when I played an evil character. You just lie to him and tell him "his friends will be safe". I just don't remember if I still got the rep boost.
     
  15. Dr_Asik Gems: 6/31
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    You get less xp and a -2 penalty to reputation. :p
     
  16. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    I'd say that makes sense. And surely the way an evil character would do it...
     
  17. Bsisi Gems: 5/31
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    Evil? I'd say neutral. Come on, who would waste time to tell some *******s to get out?
    Evil person would find a way to hear their screams when they try to run from the flood.
     
  18. Dr_Asik Gems: 6/31
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    Refusing to give a trivial sum to save dozens of lives, especially when you're going to be the cause of all those accidental deaths, shows an exceptionally cruel, egoistical or uncaring mind. A neutral character might do it, but it's definitely evil.
     
  19. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    Yeah, I'd definitely say you'd have to be evil to do it. Especially if you lie to the miner who opens the plug, tell him that his friends would be safe, even though you knew they wouldn't be. Let's face it, while it is certainly possible to not find Yeslick and Rill while going down through the levels of the mine, it's pretty unlikely that you'd accidentally miss them. (Especially considering you'd be looking for them after talking to the miner on the first level.)

    The only thing you have to do to save them is give Rill 100 gp to make the guards look the other way. At that point in the game you have already easily reached the point where you have 100 gp to spare. In fact, even if you spent every piece of coin you had proir to coming to the mines, you probably already picked up 100 gp just from corpses and random loot along the way.
     
  20. Bsisi Gems: 5/31
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    Lying by itself is neither good nor bad, it's chaotic. Though in this case it might have a touch of evil.
    But my time is worth more then those few puny lives. Egoistic? Oh, yeah. But it's neutral, I don't want to hurt them. I just don't have the will to save them either.
     
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