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Thieving Skills for Dual Class Imoen

Discussion in 'Baldur's Gate (Classic)' started by Master of Nuhn, Aug 20, 2013.

  1. Master of Nuhn

    Master of Nuhn Wear it like a crown Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    [​IMG] I never finished BG! And I never ever Dual Classed a character in the whole saga. Most threads I read were seemingly from players with different Mods installed, of which I don't know how they're different to my game. So I hope you don't mind me starting yet another, similar thread! :)

    I want to dual class Imoen to a mage, but I don't know at what level and how high her thieving skills should be. I'm only interested in Find Traps and Open Lock. Also, please keep in mind that I have TotSC installed and the level cap removed. I've been roaming about on the map doing some little side quests only and I'm still in Chapter 2, with Dynaheir just freed and probably heading for the Nashkel Mines soon (finally).

    My party consists of:
    Zebulon - Cleric 4 / Ranger 4
    Minsc (lvl 6)
    Dynaheir (lvl 6)
    Imoen (13 XP away from lvl 6)

    I'll probably pick up Yeslick and would like to add Kivan to the party as well. Preferably, I have 1 thief in my party, but I'll have to pick up an other thief until Imoen gets her skills back.

    So here are my questions:

    1: How high should Imoen's Open Lock and Find Traps abilities be (for TotSC)?
    2: At what level do you suggest she Dual Classes? (Take the level cap remover into account, please)
    3: Do you suggest a specialist school?
    4: Which other NPC would, in the mean time, be best suited for handling Open Lock and Find Traps?

    If you have other tips (say, weapon proficiencies or stuff that is easily overlooked), feel free to share. :)

    Thanks!
     
  2. Lasivern Gems: 1/31
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    #1 100% in each, which she can get by 6th lvl

    #2 at lvl 6, this allows for the 100% in both important skill and means she can regain her thief abilities some time before the end of the game. If one were using the level cap, it is 161,000 for BG1/ToTSC. Getting to 6th lvl Th takes 20,000 xp. Thus, she will be able to devote 141,000 xp to Mage [or specialist], which equates to 9th level.

    #3 Illusionist is viable - all you lose is Necromancy and in BG1 this is not a big loss. Conjurer is another reliable pick, since all you lose is Divination - again a spell school you won't much miss, especially if you have anyone else in the party who can cast Identify and/or dispel illusions and such [mirror image, invisibility, etc] Any Cleric, Druid or of course another [non-Conjurer] Mage can handle this for your party.

    #4 Unfortunately, unless one has gotten another NPC Thief early on, their game-mandated skill point distributions will be horrible. Pretty much without exception. Most either have way too much in some skills, and way too little in others, or they have spent their points in areas that are not very useful, like stealth [easily duplicated with an Invisibility spell].

    Safana is the easiest to get and work up in levels as you want her to, and Coran is the best choice with regards to non-Thief abilities [i.e. he makes a great Fighter with ranged weapons, but he has made some poor choices with skill points too...]. Alora is a viable option *if* you have access to BG city, but that's pretty late in the game to be dual classing Immy, IMHO, considering she only needs to get 20,000 xp to dual class effectively. Of course, if one is Evil, you'll have Montaron.

    You can mitigate this somewhat with various potions and spells, but that can be an expensive proposition, and the really valuable Thief skill-enhancing potions are pretty rare. No easy answer here, I'm afraid. Myself I almost always get Safana early on and work her up so she can fill the void while Immy is learning to be an Arch-Magess... :)

    One thing to note on "other" issues is that wpn profs do not stack between dual classes. For example, if you give Imoen profs in Sm Swds as a Thief, and Sm Swds as a Mage [to use daggers], when she gets her thief levels back, she will just have one prof in Sm Swds, not two. So it is best to take wpn profs as a Th that she can't get as a a Mage, and vice versa. That way she can be more versatile. Taking the Bow is of course critical, but that decision is already made for you, if memory serves.
     
  3. Master of Nuhn

    Master of Nuhn Wear it like a crown Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Thanks Lasivern, there's some nice advice. There's one thing I don't get, though.
    Imoen (at the start of my game, at least) starts off with Open Locks 25% and Find Traps 40% and she gets 20 points per level. To raise both skills to 100%, she'd need 135 points, which means 7 levels. By that time she is level 9... :confused:

    Are we talking about special gear included to get 100%?
     
  4. Lasivern Gems: 1/31
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    I believe the rule book is in error here, in that you actually get 25 points per level, not 20. I'll have to boot up BG1 to check this, but I'm pretty sure that that's the case.

    However, I think you are correct that she needs to get to 7th level, rather than 6th. It's been a long time since I commented on this issue, and I think I misremembered her need to *get* 6 more levels as needing to *be* 6th level. Sorry for the confusion, my bad.

    What I should have recalled was that Imoen *can* get to high enough level as a Mage, in BG1/TotSC, to get her Thief abilities back; she ends up as a 7th lvl Th/ *8th* lvl Mage, not a 6th/9th level dual class [*if* you want max numbers in those two skills].

    So new answer: Take her to 7th level as a Thief and then dual class her. At that point she can have 100% in OL and F/RT and an extra 10 skill points to apportion. Getting to 7th Th costs her 40,000 xp.

    Once dual classed to Mage, she can amass a further 121,000 xp under the level cap [which doesn't apply to you anyway] and 121,000 xp is sufficient to get her to 8th level as a Mage, at which point she regains her Thief abilities.

    In your case, when *not* using the level cap, she can of course attain even higher levels as a Mage [9th lvl is only 14,000 xp away, for instance]. In any case, where the prime consideration is getting here to 100% in F/RT and OL, then 7th level as a Thief is the way to go.

    Again, sorry for my error and any confusion it caused.
     
  5. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Another temp thief option is Branwyn. Give her the +1 Dex book and dual her. Extra healing. Depends on your playstyle. I try not to rest after every fight. You can do the same with Xzar if you want extra arcane magic and with Shar-Teel without using the Dex Tome. Shar-Teel is a nasty F/T and can become an awesome Archer with a magic comp bow. Plus you can get a little more roleplaying/laughter out of the mixed alignment parties due to their comments.
     
  6. Lasivern Gems: 1/31
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    Personally, I am *much* too greedy to ever let anyone but my PC get any of the books... but yes, this is a viable strategy for those willing to employ it. :)

    However, for new players who don't know what happens between certain NPCs, based on alignment, or what happens to certain NPCs when your Reputation gets too high or too low, this can be disastrous.

    I agree that the comments are entertaining, and often very funny; however for people who don't know all the ins and outs of Alignment and Reputation, as used in the game, there can be unpleasant consequences if they don't know what to do to mitigate or prevent those consequences...

    Getting to a 19 Rep, and finding half of your NPCs walking out on you, *with* all of your equipment, can be quite disconcerting... to say the least. ;)
     
  7. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    MoN is not a new player, look at his post count. The advice was for him as the OP. I am sure he knows. But I wouldn't recommend it for newbies. Plus high Rep is not a must, there is a ton of gold to be had for buying stuff with an average Rep. Hell, depending on party build, there really isn't anything that you need to buy in BG1. +1 weapons, armor and shields is all you really need for most of the game.
     
  8. Lasivern Gems: 1/31
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    I always try to post with the understanding that new players can read my posts, as well as anyone else. Just a personal decision on my part. In a private message, I would operate differently, of course. :)
     
    Master of Nuhn likes this.
  9. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    What about PickPockets? Are you ignoring that skill? I usually dual Immy either early on, like L3, or level 7 or 8. You get a little more skill points to spend and another THAC0 improvement, which helps if you are a backstabber.
     
  10. Master of Nuhn

    Master of Nuhn Wear it like a crown Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I guess I'll level her at Thief 7. She'll have FT 90 and OL 75 then, but also a lower THAC0 (and some extra HP etc).

    I'm a regular poster here, yes, but a fairly new player to BG1, too. But yes, you're right, Blades: I knew that. :D Interesting options btw! Never thought of dualling other NPC's the other way around. :)

    I'm already at Rep 20. And though I have installed some parts of the ease-of-use mod, I intentionally did not install the options that let NPC's in your party despite your reputation (nor did I choose the option for easy dual classing). Branwen would be the only option to have in my good aligned party (Just one step away from my NG protagonist).

    I don't think I want to spend a Tome on someone who I will probably ditch later, and I'll need to find that Tome first, too. But I'll give it a thought. It's a nice option.

    I don't think gold we be a problem as I tend to search in every nook and cranny for XP and loot. Pickpocketing is something my party would frown upon, but could be handy. An evil party, paying 10 times regular prices at Rep 1, would benefit much more from it, I guess.

    My party is fairly straightforward. They don't delight in backstabbing (and sneaking). They just want a clear path with no traps or locked doors. (And I just want plenty of front liners and casters, saving my only thief's skills for Open Lock an Find Traps. :p )
     
  11. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I usually have two thieves in BG. Imoen is my pickpocket -- it just suits her personality. I like Coran as a second thief (the +3 to hit and damage with a bow are really good).
     
  12. SlickRCBD Gems: 24/31
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    I can usually get by with only 90 points in those thieving abilities. Also, this is a minor nit-pick, but you only need to go up to 99% and the extra point is wasted. I don't recall ever failing with 99% when 100% would succeed. Heck, I don't recall failing with 99% period. You can put it into something else like pick pockets or stealth that you can still fail at even at 127% during the daytime.

    I'll have to experiment to see what the minimum level needed to handle every lock or trap in the game. I suspect 95% will do it, but 90 or 91% should handle 99% of the locks and traps.
     
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