The Ultimate America Conspiracy Theory

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There has been much discussion over whether the Alley of Dangerous Angles (AoDA) has morphed into the "Alley of Death to America".

Perhaps there is a reason ...

Every now and then we get conspiracy posts about secret deals, secret alliances and hidden agendas. It seems that everyone here has a piece of this world-wide conspiracy, and, togather, we should be able to piece togather the whole puzzle!

Think of it... finally we will have all the answers to the influence of the Illuminata, Skull and Bones, Area 51, Oil Companies, Enron, Hollywood, etc...

For instance:

The United States is sending men to Mars because there was life - and where there was life, there is oil. The entire NASA project was started and is controlled by American oil companies!



How can you help?

 

That could be true you know.

 

And all this time most of us in AoDA were wondering if there was any intelligent life in the White House. Maybe we should send a remote rover into the oval office to check. Hey, it could be there.

 

Nice post Blackhawk, except for the depressing fact that, as a card carrying skeptic I run into people who believe things every bit as ridiculous as what you have posted. I have heard everything from "The superbowl of 2001 was rigged because they wanted the "Patriotic" team to win after 9/11 to "Bush planned 9/11 so that he would have grounds for the war in Iraq and thereby insure his re-election!".

Those sorts of conspiracy theories don't bother me much because I know that there will never be enough people buying that to cause revisionist history to triumph over truth.

The JFK assassination is another story however...

 

The funny thing about actual US foreign policy is that talking about it is not talking about a conspiracy theory. The intentions of the neocons are fact, just read them. They are spread open on the web, on the sites of PNAC and the AEI, and the neocon outlets like Weekly Standard - or their funny little books. They are very open about it.

There is not much of a conspiracy theory speaking about this administrations plans for an American Empire after reading the PNAC buddies, pentagon seniors and vice president (who, as is well known, was a very much driving force in US foreign policy) included, wanting America to become the "Global Benevolent Hegemon". (Maybe instructive is Chalmers Jonsohns article about the American Empire of Bases.)

Guesswork is only the part where we speculate about the whys and hows in the decisionmaking process, a result of gvt secrecy that is very hard to do. The point is just the degree to which these positions have influenced foreign policy. But, here and then, insiders are coming out.

The other part, and much less guesswork, is the evaluation of the credibility of claims and arguments - there common sense and a little internet recherche can help a lot.
After a look at the neocon papertrail, you can recognise their writing when looking at the events in foreign policy. It only becomes inconsistent where reality kicked in.

And there isn't much of Anti-Americanism when disputing a dangerous and irresponsible foreign policy, not at least damaging the US themselves.

 

RuneQuester wrote:

That doesn't seem all that far fetched...Especially if you saw the call in the Pats-Raiders game in the AFC Championship Game!!!

I've often thought about the second one. Sometimes I think that 9/11 was similar to Pearl Harbor. It is widely guesssed that Roosevelt knew about the attack on Pearl Harbor before it happened, yet chose to allow it so the U.S. could join in the war. The US had been basically neutral , except for the Lend-Lease program sending arms to the UK and Russia.

I've always thought that the Government knew about 9/11, but that it was allowed to occur so that the US could justify military action in the Middle East. Especially (and don't flame me be being callous) since the loss of life at WTC and the Pentagon was relatively low - considering it occured after 9am on a Tuesday. The usuall estimates for traffic inside the Two Towers at that time of day is usually estimated between 50 and 90,000! Relatively speaking...It could've been a lot worse!!!

Well, we'll never know for sure...But one thing is certain...NEVER TRUST THE GOVERNMENT.

 

What's more disturbing is that a think tank that Cheney was a chairman of said that only something on the scale of Pearl Harbour would allow the neocons to push thier agenda. Which is exactly what happened. I'm still not so cynical as to belive that we knew in advance or planed it, but I have no doubt that they fully took advantage of it.

 

@Ragusa:


Don't get me wrong, I am a liberal myself and I am fully aware that the right are responsible for some downright horrific propaghanda and dodgy behavior over the last thirty+ years. I just draw the line at the nonsensical, whether it comes from the left or the right. People who claim that JFK was a liberal martyr and victim of some right-wing plot involving everyone from the French mafia to the Cuban cartels or that Shrub is somehow capable of masterminding an attack on US soil that would kill 3,000 people to further his political agenda and all the while not a single person comes forward to spill the beans?!?

"Three people can keep a secret...if two of them are dead."- Ben Franklin

Yes I have heard that speculation as well. I see no reason to assent to it though. All the evidence points away from this as a possibilty.

You have to think about this a minute...here the president is sitting in the Oval office when a messenger from the CIA comes in and tells him "We just learned they will attack Pearl Harbor!"

Rooseveldt: "Hmmm...can you keep a secret?Also can you go tell everyone else who knows about this to keep quiet? I am going to effectively murder hundreds of US soldiers to achieve a political goal even though such a thing is unnecessary because we already have plenty reason to go after the Axis powers!"

They had backed Chancellor Hitler early on. Nearly everyone was quite convinced he was the savior of Germany. Kinda hard to just up and about face . You gotta kind of whistle and stroll over to the war room and look for any excuse to join the "Let's beat up Germany!" gang.

That doesn't make any sense though!? Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11! Wouldn't it have made more sense to stage an attack with HIS signature all over it, rather than one of his enemies?!?

Also, I am sorry but I have a difficult time believing that an admitted "C student" would even think he could get away with such a thing, let alone somehow convince thousands of government employees to keep their traps shut as well!

Again, this contradicts your own position. If they fully expected that 50,000 to 90,000 people might get killed if they struck then and wanted to minimise casualties then why strike(or allow a strike) at that time? Also, that estimate seems WAY off and fails to take a lot of things into consideration:

1)50k-90k traffic over the course of a DAY(or at least several hours) maybe...not right at 9:00 am alone.

2) You seem to be assuming everyone would be just standing still in the buildings waiting for something to happen. People are moving in and out, going to meetings at pricey diners, taking their cars into the shop etc.

3) After the first plane hit MANY(not enough unfortunately) got the hell out of the second building before the second impact. I am sure casualties would be much higher if the planes hit simultaneously.

But we ARE the government!

 

FDR was also a politician. Would a politician pass up such a great chance at glory and political gain? If he knew the details of the attack he could have waited for the Japanese and gotten a victory out of Pearl Harbor instead of such a misrable defeat. And it still would have pushed America into the war. Do you really think any politician would pass up a chance like that. I'm sorry but this is just anti-FDR smear propaganda stuff, "imagined" by his detractors.

Shrub would have done the same if he knew in advance about 9/11. He would have been a much stronger prez (in the long term) if he could have pointed to having saved the people and the towers that day, rather than being caught with his head up his butt, which is what really happened, IMO.

 

Chandos, I think you are talking logical sense. When you're talking conspiracy theories, you do need to keep sight of reality. Sure, there are ALL SORTS of shady dealings but in the end, politicians are people too (strange though it may seem).

 

It is amazing how novices can grasp only small parts of the “True Conspiracy”…

400,000 years ago a powerful sentient race in the Regulaus system was facing extinction due to the impending super-nova condition of the local star. Unable to relocate the entire civilization due to space travel constraints that we wouldn’t be able to understand, they began to scan the local galaxy for suitable life supporting planets. It was intended that to each of these planets they would send a “seed” ship in the hopes that the unique form of
Regular life could someday develop on one of these targeted locations. The ships were sent, the sun went super-nova, the home planet was baked to a crisp and the Regulars were exterminated. All that remains on the crusty rock which was once a garden are the crumbling rubble of fast food restaurants and the slowly filling pits from ancient strip-mining.

Each seed ship carried the root of life for the now dead race, preserved in a top secret state of Hyper-hypo-super-mega-stasis (don’t ask, you wouldn’t understand). As you may well guess, our beloved Earth was one of the detected and targeted planets, and a massive seed ship relentlessly carried its precious cargo to the Terran destination. Each ship was under the care of a robotic Guardian, perpetually powered by a bank of Energizer power cells. It was the task of guardian to “awaken” the seed material upon arrival, as well as other custodial chores such as picking up mail and putting the cat out each night. In spite of the marvelous technology of the Regulars, they failed to take into account various anomalies for FTL travel, and all of the seed ships, save one, were misdirected and failed to reach the intended target, shooting into interstellar space where they eventually became “space litter”. One ship did find a target, although not the intended target, and crash landed on the surface of a barren and dieing Mars.

The robotic Guardian realized that the mission had gone amiss. Unfortunately, it could not repair the craft and had no means to redirect it toward that lovely blue and white ball that taunted on the horizon. It had only one option to try to preserve the race of it’s Masters…it placed a microscopic “Will Control” chip into an escape pod and using an oblique form of plasma-goo drive (don’t ask, you wouldn’t understand) sent the pod on a course toward Earth. The odd, alien vessel barely survived entry into the atmosphere, and began a long, crashing trajectory that took it over the North Atlantic and the Eastern Coast of the United States. The robotic Guardian knew that the pod ship was doomed, and that it could no longer direct its flight path over the distant planet. The Guardian’s sensors were able to detect, however, dense clusters of semi-intelligent life in the coastal region it was passing over. The Guardian ejected the Will Control chip, leaving the disabled pod ship to eventually crash in the distant desert of Nevada.

The microscopic Will Chip floated through the atmosphere, much like a mote of dust, until finally it was inhaled by a freshman at Yale University. Sadly, the Will Chip failed to enter any neural tissue when it was consumed by George Herbert Bush as he was engaged in a practice session on the football field, and as a result, was unable to execute its created function by controlling the actions of the host organism. In a fortunate turn of events, however, due to some difficulties digesting a pot roast, the Will Chip became lodged in some genetic tissue, tissue that later would become the sperm that would provide half the chromosomal make-up for a certain George W. Bush.

The creature was created and set upon a course in life with the sole purpose being the delivery of the Regular seed ship to Earth to establish a new colony of the long dead race. Incredible measures were taken to insure that Regular George, as the Guardian referred to him, was elevated to the most powerful office on the planet. Most of the dealings would be beyond the comprehension of the mortals on these boards (except for Manus), but they included the miraculous re-connecting of chads on certain Florida ballots and the use of an ancient Blackfoot Indian ritual which essentially robbed Albert Gore of all charisma (think of it as an extreme “level drain”). The events culminated in a false war started, with the secret intent to use oil revenues to fund a space program to retrieve the seed material from Mars. It is also not widely known that the Regular life forms are not compatible with any Carbon based organisms, so the extermination of all life on this planet is also needed prior to the formal establishment of Regular life on Earth…with the exception of cockroaches, for some reason the Regulars keep them as pets.

This is the truth. In fact when conventional critics, such as Ragusa, attack the US, they are merely pawns in the greater scheme to divert any attention from the true, heinous plans of the Regular “W” administration. Sort of a “forest for the trees” approach. There is much more that I dare not say because they are watching. They are always watching.

I need to go now because it’s time for finger-painting, which really helps me relax before I get taken to the counseling sessions.

 

Year 1945. In the ruins of Berlin a team consisted of members of Ku-Klux-Klan and other american nazi organizations managed to save Adolph Hitler and Joseph Mengele from the Red Army and led them into the safety of the US soil. Immediately after their arrival in U.S. and because of Fuhrer's bad health, Joseph Mengele used his knowledge on genetics in order to create the Fuhrer's successor. With the help of right wing elements of F.B.I. he managed to inject Furher's DNA in to the blood of a young american war hero, George Bush. After two years of waiting, his plan led to success. The new Fuhrer was born and he was given the name George Bush II. 55 years later he became the president of U.S.A..

 

My god Hacken Slash, you have liftend the truth above the mists of lies!

 

*Americans land on Mars*

Major Tom: "Rejoice! Oppressed people of Mars, you've been liberated by the US army, we bring you freedom!"

*uncomfortable silence*

Private: "No cheering here either, uh?"

Major: "Retarded anti-Americans, I bet they eat frogs too!"

Private: "They kinda look like frogs..."

Major: "Oh, that explains it."

*transmission to earth*

"Houston, we got a Frenchman"

Ground control: "Come again?"

Private: "I tell you, it's a conspiracy! They lured Americans here to d-ARGGghl!!..!.."

Ground control: "Confirm! We didn't get that last line...major! Are you there? What happened? Can you hear me, major?"

 

@ Hacken Slash: Slow day at work?
Besides, you should tell us something we don't already know (like when the hell you're gonna finish the Saga of the Thong *hint hint*).

(Good story, though )

BTW, the real conspiracy involves Ahnold, Michael Jackson, Britney Spears, Mr. Ed, and a bowl of cream of wheat, but I'm not allowed to say more than that.

 

Allthough i can't argue strongly with the scenario you present Chandos, can i ask you two questions?
Would this scenario made the USA citizens, who were not affected by the WW II untill then, accept the cause as their own as wholeheartily as they did with the defeat?
Would they accept the intension of FDR to fight both the Japanese threat with the Nazis very distant (speaking both literally and metaphorically) threat, as they did?
Would USA citizens of today, accept the de facto (mind you not de yure) declaration of two wars against two literally (before the attacks) destroyed countries, if Mr Bush went on television and told: "We foiled a major terrorist attack against the WTC in New York. The terrorists planned to take over airplanes and drive them to crush on the skycrapers and the Pentagon. Blah, Blah, Blah" G.W.B. Jr
And i want to also remind that sometimes it is not the leader, or in this situation the president of any country, that chooses a course of action.
Random events do tend to lead the people to take decisions they would normally not have taken. Imagine that a Head of State deals with situations that do affect a whole nation (everything included). I can give you examples if you wish.
The previous thought is not so much for FDR as it is for Mr. Bush, who might have not, or even now has not even a clear picture of what has really happened then. There are more than one interests fighting in the White House and some of them are even within the Oval office. Ebveryone knows it, but this can't be proved either. At least legally.
Please share your thoughts about this

 

I eventually found the final Saddm-911 link:

Remember? 11 of the 911 terrorists were Saudi? As Saddam's WMD aren't in Iraq, and according to Condi not in Syria too, and certainly not in Kuwait, Jordan or Turkey - and just as certainly not in Iran (more on that here) they must be - hold your breath - Saudi Arabia.

The conservative wahhabis there hate the US, Bin Laden was one of them, they would have a motive (aside from being evil, they want to harm the US, not at least because they are evil) and Saddm offered his stock at real bargain prices. Remember all the cash they found when he was caught? ... most certainly saudi oil money! They hid and dumped Saddam's WMD in the vast Saudi Desert - that's why they can't be found in Iraq.

[ January 17, 2004, 16:01: Message edited by: Ragusa ]

 

Only by a few who are more political analyists than gamers. No big deal. It's totally popular to hate America, right now. I've started using the term "Amerikaners" in my daily vocabulary. It's totally awesome, too. Really puts some fun into discussions. Give it a few months, and it'll be popular to hate Poland. And then Australia. And then China.

Round robin kind of games.


However, the real questions that people should be asking and should be trying to answer:

Where would BIS have been located, had it not been Stateside? And what kind of quality would the games have had?

 

Criticism of America is not hate for America. I have consistantly critizied this administration and the flaws of many previous administrations and acts that the american government and military have perpetrated. I do this because I LOVE America and want it to be the best it can be. Ignoring our problems and actions is treason. To quote Teddy Roosevelt, "The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly as necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."

This fully applies not only to the president but all those government servents under him. So when the president tosses aside treaties, pisses off our allies because they are not our lap dogs, and lies repeatedly about reasons that sends our sons and daughters to war, you are damn right I am mad and will do everything I can to get rid of said president and his administration. BECAUSE I LOVE AMERICA AND SHE DESERVES BETTER THAN THAT.

 

Mithrantir - Those are good points that you raise, and Bush II is really an amateur compared to people like Cheney, Powell, etc. And it can be argued that there are forces at work that Bush does have a grip on, even in his own inner circle. Some thought that his father would have been a guiding hand in the background. But that is clearly not the case.

I have argued on this board many times that Shrub is only a front man for larger powers. I agree with Mr. Nader's charge that he is "corporate America dressed up in a suit." It is not a conspiracy theory, that is how politics works sometimes in this country. It was the same with Ronald Reagan and his relation to the Heritage Foundation, and the big business "guns" that were behind his politcal career (sometimes also known as the Kitchen Cabinet).

http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed032403b.cfm

That Bush II, standing alone, is a total incompetent is hardly a shocking revelation to his detractors. That's why he has Karl Rove's office in the White House. Rove is not a government employee, but his personal political advisor. Some are sure that he monitors events and Shrub's reponse for maxmium political traction and some may be the kinds of events that you refer to in your post. Rove is not the incompetent amateur that Bush is, but a brilliant mastermind of politics and the shaping of public opinion - such as Bush's "secret" stop over to serve phony turkey at Thanksgiving.

Part of the point I'm making is that there are forces in Shrub's administration that are in control to a large degree and know what's going on in regard to Bush's political image. Now, it is a fine point to argue which would be more effective: the event actually happening, or the prevention of the event from taking place. If that's the case they would know that they would be taking a gamble that could get wildly out of control- because the targets included the Capitol, and the Pentagon, besides the Trade Center. It could have included the White House as well. I know that Bush was away at an elementary school (where some third graders were attempting to help Bush with his reading skills) but the risk involved could have been too great from that standpoint. The destruction of the Trade Center itself sent huge shock waves through the economy. I think they would have opted for the more controlled situation, were they could have shaped the information to their advantage without the risk that would have gone along with the event. That it worked out so well in Bush's favor, I would say was more to chance,(and the brilliance of Rove) since it could have easily gone the other way. They have certainly made a great deal of politcal gain out of the 9/11 tragedy. But again they have used the political capital gained out of 9/11 for the War in Iraq, which is really an unrelated event, and turned that into the centerpiece of policy, rather than the failure of 9/11. They then covered the whole ball-of-wax with the so called "War on Terror" another slogan that is really a political tool that has more to do with image than with reality. If they had prevented it, they could have said that Bush saves US economy, Pentagon, US congress and 100,000 lives. There would have been no end to the claims. At least that is my feeling about the grandstanding that would have taken place if they had been competent enough to "connect the dots" leading to the event.

Also, I must admit, I am not prepared to make that kind of leap and believe that they would sit by while planes crashed into America just to get their policies on track, so to speak. As someone else stated, they are people also. And without hard evidence, I am not prepared to pass that kind of judgment on them. Those who say that about FDR, would say just about anything about him, because their hatred for him and his policies overwelms their sense of better judgment. It was the same with the Clinton detractors and the whole Arkansas Project, which laid the groundwork for the fiasco that became the Whitewater Investigation. I think it's better to have the hard evidence and then make the judgment, rather than make the judgment and then make the evidence fit to support it, especially when the charges rise to this kind of criminal activity.
I have not really seen such evidence, only heresay.

As to FDR, it was Germany that declared war on the US after we declared war on Japan. It was a huge blunder on Hitler's part. One I'm sure he came to regret.

Sorry for the length of this post, but I thought that your questions deserved the best response I could provide.

[ January 17, 2004, 21:06: Message edited by: Chandos the Red ]