1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

The BoM's Hypothetical Game

Discussion in 'Playground' started by Aikanaro, Feb 26, 2011.

  1. Aikanaro Gems: 31/31
    Latest gem: Rogue Stone


    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2001
    Messages:
    5,521
    Likes Received:
    20
    Bad Investments Ltd. have decided to invest in the games industry. They approach the Sorcerer's Place community with a simple proposition: they will hire whatever team drawn from the community we put forward for a period of one year to create whatever idea it is that we (the community, as defined by whoever posts in this thread) decide to make.

    So - who will join the team and what skills are you bringing with you? (presume that you have nothing better to do for a year...)
    And, what game should the team make?

    ---

    I'll be joining as a programmer. I can also 3D model and stuff, but should avoid doing so because I suck.

    And to get the basics out of the way - I think we should make an isometric RPG. Hopefully that's something everyone can get behind. Beyond that - let's hear some ideas pitched.
     
  2. Cap'n CJ

    Cap'n CJ Arrr! Veteran

    Joined:
    May 29, 2004
    Messages:
    1,389
    Media:
    4
    Likes Received:
    35
    Gender:
    Male
    I'll be a concept artist, and not a very good one.

    However, i'll push for a Steampunk RPG. Fantasy has been done to death.
     
  3. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,410
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    232
    Gender:
    Male
    I could be a programmer, but I have really no experience with game programming.

    I'd want a turn-based RPG. Haven't played a good one since Ultima 6; and Ultima 7 shocked me that it wasn't. I thought I'd hate it, but I still had fun.

    The feeling of discovery and exploration seems to have disappeared in recent popular RPGs. I vividly remember in the Ultima games following narrow paths that I'd expect to lead nowhere only to find something like a magic carpet hidden there.

    These days it's almost as if the developers think that if everyone doesn't find everything automatically that nobody will buy the game, though I suspect it's more of not "wasting" resources on stuff that maybe only a few would find and appreciate.
     
  4. 8people

    8people 8 is just another way of looking at infinite ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,141
    Media:
    74
    Likes Received:
    133
    Gender:
    Female
    [​IMG] I'm usually better at design aspects and mechanics. I'm studying game programming at the moment but am getting pretty fuzzy on the specifics :o
     
  5. Marceror

    Marceror Chaos Shall Be Sown In Their Footsteps Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    May 3, 2003
    Messages:
    2,770
    Media:
    226
    Likes Received:
    236
    Gender:
    Male
    I'll work as a project manager, making sure that all of our deliverables and tasks are catalogued, assigned to an appropriate team member, and will just generally try to keep our efforts organized. I will also help with the creative vision of the game....

    If I have time, I'll try to help with some of the writing, while I'm at it.
     
  6. Morgoth

    Morgoth La lune ne garde aucune rancune Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2002
    Messages:
    3,652
    Media:
    8
    Likes Received:
    86
    Gender:
    Male
    I have some experience programming 3d engines and designing software architectures. An isometric RPG like BG could be fun. But we would need to sidestep the standard fantasy stuff.
     
  7. Gaear

    Gaear ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,877
    Media:
    13
    Likes Received:
    180
    ^ Most important job, without which all the other jobs quickly fall into disarray and get abandoned.

    • define mission statement ("make the greatest RPG of all time")
    • define needs to satisfy mission statement ("we'll need art, and programming," etc.)
    • define jobs to fill needs ("we'll need x number of artists, and y number of programmers," etc.)
    • fill jobs ("now hiring, apply within")
    • do jobs (Marceror cracks his whip and everybody starts delivering brilliant content)
    Second most important thing: the team leader needs to be discriminating. The "I suck at this but I'll do it anyway" mentality has to go, because it will only result in sucky product. So the TL must tell unqualified persons who apply "no." You wouldn't expect to get a job in the real world that you sucked at, much less if you told them in your interview that you sucked at it. Basically, if the objective is for everybody to 'have fun,' let anybody do whatever. If the objective is a quality product, you have to run the operation like a business.

    Then again, this is Bad Investments Ltd., so maybe they don't care. ;)
     
  8. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2000
    Messages:
    23,644
    Media:
    494
    Likes Received:
    564
    Gender:
    Male
    I guess I'd be Marceror's twin brother, ready to step in whenever he fell down from exhaustion... or an ulcer... :shake:
     
  9. Aikanaro Gems: 31/31
    Latest gem: Rogue Stone


    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2001
    Messages:
    5,521
    Likes Received:
    20
    We're off to a good start.

    Bad Investments Ltd. doesn't care - it depends on our priorities though.
    I'm fairly okay with the 'I suck at this but I'll do it anyway' mentality. It's just a matter of assigning these people to tasks that are within their ability. There's no sense in wasting free and willing manpower, and so long as the possibility of them failing is taken into scheduling there shouldn't be a problem.

    And, of course, as project manager Marceror isn't our boss. It's still a collective endeavour.

    A dedicated project manager is definitely a plus though.

    ---

    I think when it comes to our concept we need to be careful not to be too ambitious. Twelve months isn't a long development cycle and we're not exactly a team of industry veterans - and the lack of artists so far is troubling. I think we should consider setting the game in a limited space - say, in one town.

    On Steampunk:
    I'm not a big fan of vanilla steampunk these days, but I'm open to steampunk elements. Steam or clockwork technology in a fantasy setting or neovictorianism in a futuristic setting (ala The Diamond Age) work for me.
    Or setting the entire game on a zeppelin would be interesting and a good limiter.

    I'm also highly in favour of feelings of discovery and exploration in general - always liked wandering around the wilderness in BG and finding new things. Scope and such are a problem there though.

    I'd like to see fairytale fantasy done in a game - think Phantastes by George MacDonald or Stardust by Neil Gaiman. Exploration would be a big part of it - probably the main point.


    Anyway, hopefully some artists will come along, or we're going low-fi.
     
  10. Marceror

    Marceror Chaos Shall Be Sown In Their Footsteps Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    May 3, 2003
    Messages:
    2,770
    Media:
    226
    Likes Received:
    236
    Gender:
    Male
    Yeah, while a project manager role requires a good amount of leadership, this is certainly not the same thing as creative director or producer. As a project manager (and by the way, we certainly have room for more than one), I will definitely be taking my share of orders, and working to ensure that from a logistical perspective, we are positioned to deliver. At the same time, I will certainly be tracking our key milestones, and if we are in jeopardy of slipping on any of them, I'll be calling folks together to understand why, and figure out options.

    Tal, I'm sure there will be plenty of room for a collaborative approach in the PM duties, so I welcome your support in this regard. This will surely help to stave off that aforementioned ulcer!

    I see one of our big holes yet being that creative lead. The guy with the deep vision for the story, the presentation, the gameplay, and how it all fits together. The PM(s) support this guy (or gal), but these roles should certainly be separate in my opinion. The PM focuses on "how" while the creative lead focuses on "what."
     
  11. Aikanaro Gems: 31/31
    Latest gem: Rogue Stone


    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2001
    Messages:
    5,521
    Likes Received:
    20
    Creative Lead isn't a role that someone can just put their hand up for though - it's something that needs to emerge out of our discussions. We don't just want to make one person's vision, after all - it would ruin the point of a community project. If possible I think the role should be decentralised - once we have the vision we can divvy up who is responsible for what parts of the vision. Someone will need to monitor that no one has gone rogue or off-track from the generally agreed upon design, but other than that I don't think we need any single creative director.
     
  12. Gaear

    Gaear ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,877
    Media:
    13
    Likes Received:
    180
    I was going to start preaching against the perils of the paths outlined above, but as I think this is just for fun (not fighting, angst, and vitriol), I'll instead volunteer as sound guy.

    Oh, @Marceror - I won't be able to make my first project delivery ... I was planning on taking a little time off, hope that's not a problem. ;)
     
  13. Rotku

    Rotku I believe I can fly Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2003
    Messages:
    3,105
    Likes Received:
    35
    I'd be the smiley poster boy!
     
  14. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    May 29, 2003
    Messages:
    13,354
    Likes Received:
    97
    Even Bad Investments will run out of money if we let you propellor heads have your way. I'll be the Financial Controller and you'll have to come to me with a clear business case whenever you want to spend any money. So, no, you can't have triple 3d monitors each, and you can't spend 6 months on a 'creative stimulation exercise' in Hawaii before you start coding.
     
  15. Marceror

    Marceror Chaos Shall Be Sown In Their Footsteps Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    May 3, 2003
    Messages:
    2,770
    Media:
    226
    Likes Received:
    236
    Gender:
    Male
    Ulcer, phase 1 - our first performance management issue

    Gaear, without knowing the circumstances surrounding your need to take "a little time off" let me just clarify, that yes, missing a delivery objective is, in fact, a problem. A huge one. The only individuals who deserve to be on this team are those who are completely committed to its success, and your casual note to tell me that your first key project objective isn't going to be hit simply is not acceptable. What's going on Gaear? What's so important that you are placing "time off" over accomplishing a clear, (supposedly) documented milestone? And if you’re going to miss your delivery, how far off the mark are you expecting to be? A day, a week, a month! Do I need to reassign your work to someone else?

    Need I remind you that when we started this project we asked only for team members who were willing to dedicate 110% of their hypothetical time and focus to this effort, which is -- for reasons that are purely hypothetical -- the most important project or our truly pathetic lives. Presented with those expectations, you agreed to join us.

    We knew the hours would be long. We knew the sacrifices would be significant. This should not be coming as a surprise to you!

    Bottom line: I need you to either get on the hypothetical bandwagon, and show me the kind of dedication and commitment that's going to make my brain hurt (which doesn't take much, but that's a separate discussion), or perhaps Bad Investments simply isn't the right place for you. You are either absolutely, unequivocally on board with getting this done, and able to pull your own weight, or you’re gone. And that’s just a bit of hard, cold, hypothetical reality.

    Are you with us? Is that delivery objective still likely to be missed, or might you have reevaluated the situation? I need to give our creative director a status update on our progress in an hour, and I know he/she will be most interested in your status.

    And finally, while we know full well that our project is a horrifically bad investment, that it will lose money hand over fist, and ruin the personal lives of most those involved with it, if we’re going to go down, we’re going to do it in the most painful, over-the-top, dramatic way possible. So either get off the ship, or grab a torch and help us light this b%*@h on fire!
     
  16. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2000
    Messages:
    23,644
    Media:
    494
    Likes Received:
    564
    Gender:
    Male
    ... and then you never hear from Gaear again.

    Welcome to the wonderful world of fan projects. :grin:
     
  17. Marceror

    Marceror Chaos Shall Be Sown In Their Footsteps Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    May 3, 2003
    Messages:
    2,770
    Media:
    226
    Likes Received:
    236
    Gender:
    Male
    Well, to be fair, Bad Investments "hired" us, which implies that we are getting paid, so I don't consider this a "fan" project in the typical regard. We've been hired by a legitimate (if not particularly reputable) company, and we only have a year to complete our project.

    If Gaear isn't pulling his weight, he has the potential to do more harm than good, so if he leaves the team over receiving some much needed admonishment, then I can only say happy trails. Let's see though... Gaear can speak for himself on this one.
     
  18. Gaear

    Gaear ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,877
    Media:
    13
    Likes Received:
    180
    No probs, Marceror - I'm on board 110%. You can count on me. I'll get started on my stuff as soon as I get rested up. I don't know exactly when the first delivery due date is, but whatever, I'll get 'er done.

    btw, I'd kind of like to be the 'idea man' too, as I've got some cool story ideas I'd like the writers and coders to use. Can I post them here so they can get started on them too?
     
  19. Marceror

    Marceror Chaos Shall Be Sown In Their Footsteps Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    May 3, 2003
    Messages:
    2,770
    Media:
    226
    Likes Received:
    236
    Gender:
    Male
    Glad to hear it Gaear! Post away. As far as I can tell we have no idea what our project is yet, so it wouldn't be a bad idea to start figuring that out at some point. :p

    As for your delivery date, it's that hypothetical date that we agreed upon a while back. Double check your hypothetical documentation, and you'll see it's there in black and white. You might want to print that date out in size 72 font and post it next to your desk. With only a year to get this done, we will live or die by our deliverable dates, hypothetical or otherwise.
     
  20. Splunge

    Splunge Bhaal’s financial advisor Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2003
    Messages:
    6,815
    Media:
    6
    Likes Received:
    336
    Rather odd comments from the founder of a site that is trying to revitalize itself.
     
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.