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Suggestions for which characters to use

Discussion in 'BG2: Throne of Bhaal (Classic)' started by coineineagh, Jul 26, 2013.

  1. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

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    I plan to install the Baldur's Gate Megamod in its glorious entirety, and start a game from BG1 all the way to ToB using mostly the same 6 characters. I did this in the past, years ago, until there were dialog crashes, because I hadn't recruited Sarevok, while installing a mod that depended on his presence for dialogues.

    I used a F/M/C, Imoen, Minsc, Jaheira, Edwin, and Viconia. But single classes are very tedious. My multiclass units were still leveling and expanding options, while Imoen, Minsc, Viconia and Edwin only leveled up one class. They also had limited weapon options, because clerics are so restricted to blunt weapons. Jaheira and Minsc had the best options, but so many good weapons went unused.

    I can use cheats to warp to Athkatla maps and pick up BG2 characters before I should be able to recruit them, so timing isn't important. For this run, I'm thinking of using all multiclass units, and much less cleric:
    F/M/T, Jaheira F/Dr, Jan T/Ill, Aerie Cl/M, Coran F/T and maybe Quayle Cl/Ill.

    But weapon availability also matters. I'm not overly bothered about the few paladin-only weapon, but what about the other weapons..? It's been so long since I played 2E D&D: Do Fighter-Thieves have the same access to weapons as pure Fighters, or does thief class limit their options?
    Would Ranger Minsc have just as good a weapon selection as Paladin Keldorn, if I decided to bring him along? Which gets better spells in 2E: Ranger or Paladin?
     
  2. Montresor

    Montresor Mostly Harmless Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder

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    The easy stuff: Fighter/Thieves can use all weapons a fighter or thief can use but they can only backstab with thief weapons. So you can wield a two-handed sword if you don't want to backstab.

    Minsc can use any weapon Keldorn can use, except for the two Holy Avengers Carsomyr and Purifier.

    Oh - having Aerie and her "Uncle" Quayle in the same party sounds fun. What will he say if you choose to romance her? :D
     
  3. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Coin, the megamod is awesomness. :D But the problem is the devs only gave us the generic party to run through both games with if you want continuity. That gets boring quickly in my book. We all mod our games to some degree, whether it's an official patch or a mod from one of the various sites on the web. If you don't want the "Vanilla 6" that bioware gave us in PC, Immy, Edwin, Jaheira, Minsc and Viccy, I would highly recommend added BG1 NPCs in SoA by the Smiling Imp. Great stuff. ToB content as well. I only found one area to be add overpowered stuff, the Water Gardens area, but i just skip it. Everyone but Khalid and Dynaheir comeback as recruitable NPCs. Which make for some very intersting Dual-Class options with the human NPCs. Xzar as a Nec/Cleric or Nec/Thief. Shar-Teel as Fig/Thief is a great option in the pre-Immy portion of the game. None of the original BG1 Npcs were overpowered in my book, so it's not a balance changing mod otherwise. Some of the minor villians from BG1 make an appearance here and there as well. Very nostalgic.

    Either way, good luck with your install, it can be challenging if you don't research your order of mods.
     
  4. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

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    I spent all of last night looking at the readme's of my old BGT mods, and I believe I saw BG1NPC as well. I think I decided against installing it in the future, because the changes to class options means it alters the rules. I'm apprehensive to install mods that add classes/jobs, because of potential compatibility conflicts. If I have 50 or so mods installed, it's very difficult to backtrack and find which one causes conflict. But you've piqued my curiosity - I'll take the chance.

    Anyway, thanks for all the help. I'm more familiar with 3E rules nowadays, due to Order of the Stick and Icewind Dale 2. But I remember when I played this megamod years ago, I was cursing my choice in characters because of the single classes and cleric's blunt weapon limitations.

    My main character was a F/M/C, and he had less weapon flexibility than Imoen. F/M/T will suit me much better, I think.

    ---------- Added 3 hours, 22 minutes and 14 seconds later... ----------

    One question about dual-classing: Can you choose High Level Abilities from both classes in Throne of Bhaal, or only the one you dualed into?
    I'm thinking of keeping Imoen after all, but letting her stay thief for a lot longer than I let her last time (lvl 9). But I forget whether she was able to select the Use Any Item ability or not...
     
  5. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Only the active class for the HLA. So if you want her to have UAI, you need to keep her a thief for quite a while before dualling her over, so I tend to think it's not worth it.
     
  6. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

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    Agreed. Reaching approx. 3.000.000XP just for that would mean going without Imoen as mage for too long. This is exactly why I'm partial to multiclass over dual class. I probably won't bring Imoen along after all.
    I'll try my luck with Keldorn this time. It also pains me to let go of Minsc, and Edwin and Viconia aren't multiclass either. I really liked my characters back then, so perhaps I'll give it some more thought. Imoen, Edwin and Viconia can go, but maybe Minsc will stay... any way to get him into a ranger kit?

    Maybe I'll bring: F/M/T, Jaheira, Jan, Minsc, Aerie/Coran, Keldorn.
    If I cheat-jump to pick up Keldorn, will I need to initiate his quest in the sewers? I'm worried that if I pick him up, after a day or so, he might threaten to leave because I didn't start the Unseeing Eye quest...
     
  7. Montresor

    Montresor Mostly Harmless Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder

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    Keldorn won't bug you about the Unseeing Eye quest. If you bring him to the Government District in Athkatla he will want to visit his home and you'll have to do that quest within a few days - but a low-level party shouldn't have trouble with that.
     
  8. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

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    I found an old thread from 2008, in which I described my troubles with my installs.
    http://forums.blackwyrmlair.net/lofiversion/index.php/t3860.html
    Apparently BG1NPC mod was a big problem at the time, messing up my dialog.tlk
    After uninstalling it, all was well again. Despite my curiosity, I'm going to have to avoid that mod again.
     
  9. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    ???? I think you are confusing mods here. BG1 NPCs in SoA adds the NPCs from BG1 into SoA, creator is the Smiling Imp. Maybe you had the BG1 NPC project installed. That did have conflict issues. There is no class changing in BG1 NPCs for SoA. It adds game content only. The homepage is on TeamBG. Choose to have Kagain's vanilla items only, otherwise his store is full of crazy items. The whole point of the mod is to be able to have continuity for all NPCs into SoA, except Khalid and Dynaheir, as they are dead. There is also a Khalid NPC mod for SoA over at SHS. This mod changes the beginning of the game having Khalid is missing, not dead. During install, you can choose to leave Khalid as Fighter and Jaheira as F/D or change their classes to new kits, Harper Fighter and Harper Druid. Neither kit is overpowered and both are a fun change.
     
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  10. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

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    Wow! Excellent suggestion. I'm downloading it now. So to be clear, the BG1NPCs in BG2 are linked to their originals in the first game? So if I play with Tiax and Coran in BG1, I can pick them up in BG2 after the transition? I just wonder if it will take a long time to encounter them, though... Coran shows up in woods you can explore after you finish the Underdark. And Tiax is in Spellhold... guess I'll have to rush to the later chapters if I want to pick them up...

    Most of the mods I have are years old, but I don't have a home internet connection to start massively updating them at the moment. And I studied the compatibility of the mods I have in detail already, so updating might create more incompatibilities. I'm glad I still have Improved Anvil 4.2, from before the author started changing spells, making it incompatible with megamods.

    ---------- Added 7 hours, 44 minutes and 3 seconds later... ----------

    According to this, mages start gaining their first High Level Abilities at level 18, but there are only 5 (6 if you're neutral) of these "10th level spells" to choose from, and once you've got them, no more HLA's to choose from. Clerics have a similar situation, with their pool of "quest spells". Quayle and Aerie are destined to be crap at the end, so I won't include them.

    Rogues at least get to keep picking special traps that can prove useful, after all their nifty abilities have been chosen.

    Warriors get the best deal, since they can keep picking more Greather Deathblows in addition to lots of other neat stuff. So, here's my idea, tell me if you've heard this before and whether it's idiocy or not: If I start a single class human as a mage, like Edwin, then I let him reach lvl23 (this will take ages, I know), and once he's out of HLA picks I decide to Dual him into a Rogue or Warrior (stat boosts from mods will make me easily meet dualing requirements by that time), that will make him a lot more efficient with plenty of HLAs. Am I right? Or does a character that starts out as mage become a very low-HP Mage/Warrior?

    The regular ToB game advances levels until 30, which includes many spells. I plan to introduce leveling mods that go to 50, but not for the spells. Will I miss out on a lot if my mage stalls at lvl23?

    Anyway, I'm looking around for some nice characters to bring with me. Jaheira and Jan are keepers. Coran and Tiax look interesting, albeit bland by the time I'm in BG2 & ToB (apparently that BG1NPC mod doesn't port characters you used in BG1, it only replicates them in BG2). I'm wondering if anybody can advise me about some MULTIclass NPC mods out there, preferably F/M or T/M. Solaufein is too late-game.
     
  11. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    NPC locations...spolier

    Garrick - Bridge District, Five Flagons, after his lovespeech with the paladin outside of the Order of the Radian Heart.

    Skie & Yeslick - SW corner of the map in the Bridge District, standing together.

    Tiax - Outside of the tent in Waukeen's Promenade

    Quayle - Same location as vanilla SoA, but you must speak with him with either Tiax or Jan in your party. Then he will appear jsut south of the Circus tent. You can't have Aerie in your party I believe.

    Kagain - SW area inside of the Promenade. You have to ask him to join at least 4 times before he will say yes.

    Xzar & Monty - Complete the rescue of Monty from the harper's base in the docks. Then go back to Prebek's house, they will be alive and waiting for you.

    Shar-Teel - In the copper Coronet, in the entry way to the fighting pits.

    Faldorn - Same as the vanila game.

    Eldoth - In the middle of the Graveyard, I "think" he will only appear if you ahve Skie in the party, not 100% sure on that though.

    Xan - Held captive in the Slaver's ship in the slums.

    Coran and Safana - In the woods as the vanilla game. you can now go there right away, no need to wait for the Underdark. Once you trigger the wolfwre encounter, go back to the slums. Go to the Temple of Ilmater located on the rooftop of the Copper Coronet. They are raised and are now joinable.

    Ajantis - You can rescue him inside of Firkraag's lair. I believe near Firkraag. I haven't tried this quest as of yet.

    Alora - Inside the Armorer/Fletcher shop in Waukeen's Promenade.

    Branwyn - Temple District, standing in the lane between the Temples of Helm and Lathander.

    Kivan - At the City Gates area. Just standing in the road. Easy pick up if you want him. He now has an Archer Kit added. Archers kick ass in SoA.

    Dual Classing is much harder to do in BG2 than IWD2. There are Statistical requirements. 15 in your Original class attribute, 17 in your new class attribute. For Edwin to be able to dual, he would need a 17 in Dex for a Thief, 17 Str for a Fighter or 17 Wis for a Cleric. He is not even in the ballpark of dual-classing. Possible dual clasers are the same as in BG1. (*Please note that I believe if you up stats on any of the NPCs with the Tomes from BG1, the stat increase does not carry over into BG2.) But SK can easily fix that. Possible DCable NPCs include Shar-Teel(thief), Xzar(thief or cleric), Immy(mage) and Safana(mage).

    ---------- Added 0 hours, 16 minutes and 45 seconds later... ----------

    Multi-class NPC Mods...

    Ninafer - Elven F/M, found in the Copper Coronet. Low Con, high Dex. Nice Long Sword and Elven Chainmail to start. Highly Recommended if you don't mind the HPs being a bit low. MI, Blur and Stoneskin go a long way in combat though...

    Callisto - Elven Fighter only, not MC...BUT with armour that casts Fireball x3/day. Found in the Promenade right away. 17 Str, 18 Dex, 16 Con. Killer armour and sword to start. Awesome NPC. Maybe a bit overpowered.

    Aeon - DC Abjurer/Thief - Found in the lower levels of the Graveyard.

    Angelo Dosan - DC F/M - Found in the Graveyard.

    Beyond the Law mod - Adds Kiyonne, a LG Archer and Kova, MC M/T. Pretty good mod. Adds a lot of dialogue. Also has the Cowled Wizards hunting you down, which is much fun! They come as a pair though. Not sure what happens if you let one die and then release them from the party.

    Stivan the Hunter - CN Halfling fighter/Theif - Found in the Bridge District.

    Tsuki - M/T - Found in Bohdi's lair, must side with Bohdi.

    Xulaye - Drow Mage/Assassin - Found in Ust'Natha

    Tyris Flare - the amazon from Dungeon Siege - DC F/M, found in the Umar Hills region.

    Sheena - Half-Dragon fighter/Mage. Never tried the mod.

    Other mages....

    Tsjatha Melalor - Elven Necromancer - Found in the Sphere.

    Worgas - Wild Mage - He is standing there when the game begins....

    Taisha - Elven Sorceress - found in the Inn in Trademeet...

    Kelsey - Sorcerer - Found in the Government district outside of the Firecam Estate.

    Ninde - Necromancer - Found in Bohdi's lair if you side with Aran Linvail.

    Adrian - Ex-Zhentarim Sorcerer - held captive by the Duergar in Irenicus's dungeon. I really liked this NPC. Lots of dialogue.
     
    coineineagh and (deleted member) like this.
  12. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

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    You've been a tremendous help to me, so I'd like to thank you so much for all this info you gave. Starting locations for Tiax and Ninafer couldn't be found anywhere else. If you happen to recall the starting location of the Beyond the Law NPCs, I'd love to hear about it. These seem to be my most appealing options, due to the ease of recruiting them, and their suitability for my multiclass requirements.
    Tiax has become more appealing again: If I can just pick him up in front of the circus tent, I should be able to zip in from BG1 with CLUA and pick him up (I'm hoping the cowled mages scene only activates when you are in visual range...).

    Yeslick might be safest to pick up early for me, though I don't like the weapon restrictions without any hope of Use Any Item in the future. The author also hasn't created quite as much dialogue for him as he did for Tiax.

    I had the Ninafer NPC mod before, and I wrongly deleted it. Nice Viconia look to the NPC, it's like having a not-so-crappy-after-all Viconia tagging along. It's a pity she can't get along with evil mages, because I'm still considering Edwin. I probably won't bring Edwin, and the modmaker wrote that despite plans, there are no actual NPC conflicts due to this. This is the best mod for me.

    I also have Beyond the Law, though I didn't play it properly last time, because you need those two to join. If Kiyonne is killed off, I think most of the mod will still work, because it triggers on harboring Kova in the party, not Kiyonne. Kova sounded like a perfect match, until I looked at that awful goth portrait of his. Maybe I'll swap it out for a different portrait, by putting in a new one in the folder before installation. I might even make it a female portrait, since Kova could be a girl's name. Instead of a lame gothic character, I'll have a female T/M with a very personal secret hidden in 'her' robes and character sheet. Suffice to say I won't engage in any romance options with her! :D

    Stivan looks neat, though with Tiax and Jan, my quota of undersized companions has been met. He also lacks the mage aspect I was hoping for.

    Xulaye is a kitted MC thief: Assassin. It's worth a look, and I might be able to CLUA in early to pick her up from the underdark.

    And finally Sheena, she looks great, but I fear what all that additional coding for the shapeshift might mean for incompatibilities. STR can't be improved, which is an added limitation. No idea if this can be a stable character, and there is little feedback from the community. It isn't easy to pick her up from Firkraag's lair, either.

    My plans for now:
    PC F/T/M
    Jaheira F/Dr
    Jan T/Ill
    Tiax T/C
    Ninafer F/M
    Miss Kova T/M ;)
     
  13. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Kiyonne will find you in chapter 2...no exact location, but it happens rather early. Once you agree to help her, you need to find Kova. Kiyonne is hunting him but... this is a big-time
    falls in love with him.
    He can be found in the
    Windspear Hills. Somewhere in the middle(ish) section of the map. You will get dialogue that you hear someone or see footprints or something of that type, I don't remember exactly what was the indicator.
     
  14. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

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    Thanks again. Hmm, that might pose a problem. If Kiyonne isn't located anywhere, I can't pick her up by CLUA early in BG1. So many maps have risks involved. I'm worried If I try to pick up Xulaye or Solaufein in Ust Natha, that an alarm will trigger, making the whole city hostile. If I zip in invisible, I might be able to make a quick recruit, only to find out in BG2 that the city became hostile anyway. Maybe it doesn't matter if I don't have a full 6-man team in BG1; I'll pick up who I can, and make do with them. Compared to BG2, BG1 offers much less XP, and my main character will be 3 classes anyway. If I solo it, he will have more XP, so the allies with 2 classes aren't that much ahead by the end.
     
  15. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

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    Busy installing my megamod now, and it's going well. But I ran into a very unexpected problem, in that I can't open .gzip files, and the latest Big World PDF is in one of those.



    EDIT: problem solved
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2013
  16. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

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    I finally completed my installation of all the mods I wanted. To my surprise, it appears to play smoothly on the first tryout, though I'm sure I'll encounter bugs.

    Of particular interest is the mod Level 1 NPCs, which allowed me to change the classes of my favourite NPCs to suit what I want.
    Imoen = Swashbuckler / Mage multiclass
    Jaheira = Fighter / Avenger
    Minsc = Stalker / Cleric
    Edwin = Thief / Conjurer
    Viconia = Mage / Cleric of Talos

    I look forward to reuniting my old party, this time with a twist.

    Level 1 NPCs also allows me to leave them behind for a considerable time, because upon re-recruitment there is a code that will match their XP gains to my PC. I can now do lots of NPC sidequests, without worring that my regulars are missing out on XP progress. It's like I'll be playing Dragon Age!

    So many interesting new mods installed. I look forward to playing through them all. I was saddened that so many new mods are packed in .gzip files, and my unzipping programs don't seem to be able to unpack most of those. But my install is complete now, so I won't be adding them.
     
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