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Steven Erikson says....

Discussion in 'Booktalk' started by Chandos the Red, Apr 25, 2009.

  1. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

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    While the last book, Toll the Hounds, was just dreadful, Erickson says his books are going to be picking up steam ("the poop hitting the fan," actually) towards the ending of his colossal 10 volume series, The Malazan Empire:



    A cliff-hanger for Erickson won't be so bad because unlike Tad Williams, who finishes a book every 3 years and ends every book on a cliff-hanger, Erikson is a very fast writer. So we should have the last book within our lifetimes, and we don't have to go back and try to remember what we were waiting for and why we should even CARE, for that matter. Gee, I wonder who it could be...



    To write four hours a day, six days a week is really hard work. Erikson has my admiration.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2015
  2. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I found "Toll the hounds" to be better than the book before. I will admit that the later books have been not as good as the first few but I found it more to be about how incredibly good they were. The latter books were "boring" in comparision but still way better and more enjoyable than most fiction out there. Very nice to see that he seems to be getting done and I am as you incredibly impressed with the pace of his writing.

    If you haven't you should pick up the Esslemont books, for a Malazan fan they are vital. The first one was so so although it gave some interesting background and worth reading just for that but "Return of the Crimson guard" could be mistaken for an Erikson book if you didnt know better and I would say that they are part of the overall series.
     
  3. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    When si George R R Martin going to finish the Song of Ice and Fire? Now THERE is a series whose cliffhanger I have now completely forgotten.
     
  4. Enagonios Gems: 31/31
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    I've given up waiting for GRRM :rolleyes:

    I definitely have to try and find a copy of The Crimson Guard then. I share the opinion that Night of Knives was a pretty weak effort and was useful only in terms of some background info. A question though, has the protagonist of Night of Knives (the girl-thief, forget her name) become someone of importance in the Malazan series? I thought maybe it was the orgin story of someone important and maybe I just hadn't made the connection.
     
  5. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Not that I could figure out. Am going to reread shortly though.
     
  6. AMaster Gems: 26/31
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    No one knows. Not even GRRM.
     
  7. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I went to his homepage the other day and as far as I could understand he had brought another writer in to help him finish. Seems like Martin has suffered from the worst case of writer's block ever during the last decade. The latest book he wrote wasn't really a book but just another way of procrastinating. I have pretty much given up on Georgie. They will start filming the HBO version of "Game of thrones" this autumn. If that is a hit how will they like having an unfinished story to for later seasons?
     
  8. AMaster Gems: 26/31
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    Well, presumably he at least has an outline for the rest of the series. He's not just making it up as he goes along.

    And...point me to this 'brought in other writer' thing. I'm not seeing it. Also I've not seen it mentioned on the westeros board, which I presume it would have been.
     
  9. Apeman Gems: 25/31
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    Lol, you guys should check out the date when that was announced.

    IIRC that was somewhere in the beginning op april :rolleyes:

    Still have to read Reapers Gale and Toll the Hounds. It's a pity the reviews are negative, I was finally getting into the Malazan series.
     
  10. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Hmm, I actually double checked to see if it was an April's Fool joke cause that was my first thought but the date I saw was not very close.
     
  11. AMaster Gems: 26/31
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    I just found it and the date very clearly says April 1st. Even if it didn't, this would be pretty clear evidence he's not exactly serious:

     
  12. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

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    The first five books are great - after that, read at your own risk.
     
  13. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I think you are doing what so many people are doing with series that are hitting "slumps" Chandos. If a person writes five superawesome books and the following two not live up to those standards doesn't mean that they are crap. They might feel like crap and you might feel a bit disapointed when you compare to the superdupergood books the author has written but were the "bad" books really that bad judged entirely on their own? I find myself doing this a lot as well, but a bad book is really bad. A book in a series that isnt as good as the other books in said series isn't nescessarily bad it just isn't as great as the other ones.

    I get a bit, annoyed is a too strong word, but it is in that ballpark when you Chandos say stuff is awful, horrendously boring and utter crap when the issue is that the books are not as superawesome as previous books. Terry Goodkind is stuff you read at your own peril, not the two latest Malazan books.
     
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    Although in TG's case, the books can be so terrible they become awesome.
     
  15. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

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    I'm sorry that my opinion annoys you. But I did not like his last three books. If you want to believe that it's just because of a "slump," that's fine.
     
  16. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    So you are saying that Reaper's Gale and Toll the hounds are awful books of the same quality as Sword of Truth or some of Ed Greenwood's D&D books? Also, you really should work on your reading comprehension I clearly said I was not annoyed although now you have annoyed me by being somewhat of a douche. Anyhoo, you are entitled to your opinion but I still claim that you are too harsh in your criticism and the reason for that I think is because people get grumpy when they expect a certain standard from a writer and it isn't met and thus something that really is good but not awesome is labelled as crap.
     
  17. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Whoa now, let's tone down the name calling before this gets out of hand...
     
  18. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

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    Maybe you need to work on your writing skills, since you wrote, "in the same ballpark." I took that to mean that you were unhappy with me that I did not share your opinion of Erikson's last "efforts." Iirc, I had the same type of argument with you over my dislike of the medieval soap opera, "Song of Fire and Ice." I thought that was farily lame as well.

    Regarding TB: I started one of his books, and it's been so long I can't remember the title, only that it was one of the SoS books, and never finished it. At least I read the Erikson in its entirety - as painful as it was.
     
  19. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    In the same ballpark means that I was not really annoyed, more that it is something that has bugged me with a lot of people me included. Anyhow, so as to follow BTA's advice I will not participate in this discussion with you as we are clearly not discussing the same thing and I recently find it harder and harder to not let you get under my skin.
     
  20. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

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    Well, yes and it is my fault, since I was not being very considerate.

    The amazing thing about Erikson is that it has taken him five books to become this indulgent. For instance, it took Robert Jordan only two books, and other writers much less time. It is a trap, of their own making, that a lot of successful writers fall into. They become didatic in their approach rather than artistic. Jordan was a bit sneakier about it, (but his fans were qucik to spot it, nevertheless), whereas Erickon is very upfront with his constant ramblings on the nature of good and evil and the nature of power and the "powerless." His craft has suffered as a result of his personal indulgence into the story and the characters.

    We get it, Joac. We see - through the characters and their actions - how the powerful, and those who grasp at power, affect the lives of the powerless. We don't need Erikson's take on it, we want to know what Rake or Kallor thinks about it through their actions and dialogue with others; how they interact with each other, which contrasts their particular viewpoints; how they handle their own personal power differently and how they thwart each other in the story. That is how to convey meaning, IMO, not with pages of expostion on the past centuries of "evil." Erickson wants to portray Kallor as a tragic figure? and he's one that we should feel some sympathy for? But why should we? Because Erikson thinks so? He needs to let Kallor accomplish that as a character in a story, rather than because "Erikson says so."

    But what's worse is that it's spilled over into the entire story: the plotting has suffered, the characters have become less interesting, even the action seems less dramatic at this point in the story. And the foreshadowing is now telegraphing the ending much to far in advance. So we know what's going to happen in the end, at the beginning of the story. We only need Erikson to provide the details and we can call it a day.

    At least that's how I see it and why I am so critical of his last few books. And now I'm not trying to get "under your skin" with my critique of Erikson in this regard.
     
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