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Specialist wizards gain an extra +2DC to spells of their type.

Discussion in 'Icewind Dale 2' started by Jamesworkshop, May 2, 2019.

  1. Jamesworkshop Gems: 1/31
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    I've looked in major guides and forums and I cannot see this ever getting mentioned. I've put a copy of the save file I used in testing if anyone wants an easy way to check. Pretty sure i'm not making any mistakes.

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1l4WYzwCUe_N2g_MZ7qNuKsAo3eDHcVlZ

    I used humans since they have the fewest rules to get in the way and my Wizards of 18 INT (+4 DC) using Stinking Cloud creates a spell DC of 17, my guinea pigs have a Fortitude save of 7 so they need a dice roll of 10 to save but this fails when my Conjurer uses the spell and they need to roll 12 to match the spells raised DC of 19.

    Since specialist wizards can use another casting class to break their restrictions I feel that the best type is either Necromancer due to powerful high level spells or the Enchanter since it produces a potent Mass Dominate which is key to boost being an all or nothing spell, Chaos as a mid game spell gets a nice boost.

    It works with spell other than conjuration but Stinking cloud does no damage so it's easy to watch and the duration means you don't have to keep casting it like most evocation spells.


    Only a minor thing I don't think is worth a complete thread is looking at Concentration and Spellcraft on http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/IWD2/skills.php

    Both test against 15 + spell level (max 9) which only adds to 24, this seems low considering you can put 33 skill points into each but assuming the page is correct it seems that feats like COMBAT CASTING: aren't really all that since few people tank Con compared to INT. DISCIPLINE: would be in the same boat if it didn't also improve will saves.

    You could even risk droping the skill investment to reach 23 (including Attribute Modifier) if there was an easy way to tell if rolling a 1 on the D20 was an automatic fail.
     
  2. SlickRCBD Gems: 24/31
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    I could have sworn it was in the manual, but between all the AD&D games they kind of blur together. I couldn't spot any mention of it with a quick skim of the IWD2 manual searching for "special".
     
  3. Keneth Gems: 28/31
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    Huh, that's a weird anomaly but ok.
     
  4. Jamesworkshop Gems: 1/31
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    Used an 18 INT Evoker with 2 Evocation spell focus feats and chromatic orb needed a saving throw of 21, a perfect +6 to DC.
     
  5. Keneth Gems: 28/31
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    After a tiny amount of research, I've found that this is a holdover from the old BG2 engine. Kinda messes with the balance, but it's hardly the only thing in the game that contributes to that.
     
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    When I found out about this and also found that it applies to cleric spells as well a Necromancer/Cleric, with just enough levels for Skull Traps, became one of my favorite builds.

    Woops, this is in the IWD2 thread.
     
  7. Laclongquan Gems: 5/31
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    It sounds good until you realize that add in extra class slow your specialist down one level thus the point moot.

    I did run a TransmuterX/Sorcerer1 once. It does work but it's not as good as advertised. I really recommend generic wizard. You want the versality of all schools and the pure class.
     
  8. Jamesworkshop Gems: 1/31
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    It puts progression back a level but you don't have access to scrolls when you could learn them so it makes next to no practical difference, then by the end with a 29/1 level split you still end up with the same number of spells per day, a 28/2 split only misses 1 extra level 5 spell cast per day which neatly includes the rogue/wizard combo.
    1 level does break the wizards multiples of five for an extra feat but that isn't a super big loss you get more than you really need anyway and if you had the rogue level you'd already lost that one so no additional loss for another class.
    Getting +1 extra spell per level each day along with an unrestricted spellbook and a +2 DC for a school of magic seems like a far better exchange.

    Personally I think a single Paladin level is the better mix in over a sorcerer one, you get a bit more HP along with all the basic Martial weapon feats while the Lost followers quest give you a small boost to will saves and carrying weight.
    LG only is a bit of restriction but even a Monk level could be considered as a broader option for alignments while chucking in the Martial Axe and evasion, works well with Mordenkainen sword since along with Haste+(monk only)Thunderclap you get 5 attacks in a round, you could do the same with HOF Chain of Drakkas, but you don't get that till the very last chapter.
    Even with a real Monk in a party it's probably a decoy and using the +5 AC bracers instead so no harm in a wizard pinching them.
    Damage can get pretty nasty when you know that Power Attack also works with Mordy sword along with +5 luck creating a permanent state of maximized damage on top of Executioner eyes for supreme critical hits.

    Pure wizards give up a ton of options to worry about not going from 29 rounds of spell duration to 30. 9 extra spells, an open spell book and expanded weapon feats is the definition of variety.

    The sweet spot for me is reaching Specialist wizard lvl 20 as this grants the full spell list and 5 spells cast per day across the board, after that each level depreciates in value, so naturally, this is a HOF only strategy.

    The most overrated mixing to my mind is giving 4 fighter levels to a cleric for +2 damage only to make Draw upon holy might give them +8 rather than +10 (a 20% reduction)
    10/rounds a level, level 2 Aid spell does half the job of weapon specialization for any weapon.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
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    To be pedantic, Four fighter levels to a cleric also gives +2 to BAB as BAB progresses at 1 per level for fighters and +1 for every two levels for clerics. You also get a bonus feat. If you are doing a build where the cleric is casting a lot of self buffing spells like DUHM or Champion's Power, taking a dip into fighter might not be so bad a move as it means you will hit the enemy more often.
    That said, I find four fighter levels better for barbarians, monks, or rogues. Even Paladins can benefit from the extra damage and combat feat.
    The only worse class is sorcerer or wizard whose BAB is so bad a mere +4 won't help much in the long run and would benefit more from a level of Paladin for the saving throw bonus since the sorcerer should not be on the front line, but using a longbow instead of a crossbow can help when he's not casting spells due to doubling the rate of fire.
    I tend to horde my spells, and instead equip a missile weapon and take potshots at the enemy when not casting. Generally I target any disabled enemies or the enemy casters. Let the sorcerer/wizard kill the disabled enemy while the fighters take on the active threats.
     
  10. Jamesworkshop Gems: 1/31
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    When they can I prefer Paladin for clerics, the loss of 1 strength from DUHM is wiped out by the +2 gained from the paladin quest reward and you end up 1 point higher in the deal, 2 wisdom into the mix, otherwise 1 fighter level grants a bonus feat and the Dwarven ogre belt for permanent blur and a strong +6 to strength that doesn't rely on duration nor worrying about being dispelled.
     
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    You are looking at it from the wrong view.

    DUHM strength lie in the bonus Constitution, something not easy to find. Strength you have plenty (potions, spells, scrolls) but Cons is hard.

    A casting of DUHM is like extra save + extra HP, + possible regen in the mix.

    So yeah, while Pal/Cle is possibly good to get extra reward stat (something very important to gamers), overall it's worse than pure cleric in term of HPmeatshield, let alone caster aspect or melee aspect. Best melee would f4/cle with focus in one type of weapon, and selfheal like crazy with Heal
     
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    Regen? I thought this was Icewind Dale TWO, which uses 3E rules. You don't get regeneration for high CON. Also that "extra HP" is only a few points, comparable to an aid spell, but when the spell ends, it is taken away such that if you are below the amount that bonus grants you, you die.
    If you are reduced to 1hp while under DUHM or other temporary CON-boosting spell (bear's endurance is the only other I can think of off-hand), you'd better quaff a healing potion immediately (though casting sanctuary and then quaffing the potion might be better if you know for sure DUHM won't run out). The bonus is low enough that even a basic healing potion will get you out of the danger zone, although it might take two Goodberries. Those rations you can pick up in Targos should have the same issue as Goodberries.
     
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    Eh, regen is least important: note I mentioned it last.

    And that extra HP is somewhat important as it can be coupled with other HP bonus tool. Like I said, Con bonus is hard to find .

    It's the difference of dead right there from a twohand sword strike, and some HP left in near death state, thus can be saved with a healing potion~

    I play both Paladin and F4C, and I find that the bonus Con can be very beneficial the harder/higher level you go. In HoF mode, the 2hand weapon strikes are quite frequent and hit like a truck.
     
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    You're both wrong since the best way to mitigate damage is to not get hit in the first place. In other words, the best defense is offense. That's the golden rule of D&D.
     
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    That was only possible with Vanilla's easy design. Heart of Fury mode giving spawns too much power, it's hard to do a first strike-first kill battle~

    Like, at the outer fortress area, where you meet goblins, there's halfgoblin mixed in with their two hand swords. One or two hit from that could kill an unprepared melee in a blink. Also, HoF goblins have about 80 HP, which generally mean three or four hits unless you fight with that goblinslaying knife (good stuff!).

    Or the Andoran village. Its terrain mean you cant do 1st strike=1st kill, but getting in step by step in the face of defensive fire (they are on the ledge).
     
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    Tanking on HoF mode is an even bigger mistake precisely because of the massive increase in damage output. Also, this clearly demonstrates the "linear warriors, quadratic wizards" principle which is prevalent up to the 4th edition of D&D. Tanking with your warriors and healing them afterwards is just a bad use of your party resources. What your party should be doing is distracting enemies with disposable HP pools (i.e. summons) and using the rest of the actions to disable and finish off the enemies. Warriors are meant to be the cleanup crew after reaching mid-levels.
     
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    I thought the warriors were the main damage dealers in HoF mode, but the summons were the meat shields. The spellcasters summoned meat shields and cast disabling spells on the enemies, then the warriors wail away at them to chip away at the massive HP the enemies have. Warriors are essentially glass canons in HoF.
     
  18. Keneth Gems: 28/31
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    Exactly, they're the cleanup crew. Works better in P&P with CdG, but it's still the most efficient strategy in IWD2 or any D&D game prior to 4E rules, really.
     
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