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Sorcerer/Wizard

Discussion in 'Neverwinter Nights (Classic)' started by SaveMeJeebus, Sep 5, 2013.

  1. SaveMeJeebus Gems: 1/31
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    I decided before I begin my adventure that I would look for a build to follow. I have found two Sorcerer builds but if they are really viable so I figured I should just ask.

    http://www.gamebanshee.com/neverwinternights/strategies/sorcerer.php
    http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Sorcerer_18/_red_dragon_disciple_10/_pale_master_12

    I also learned that Sorcerers are limited to spells, while Wizards are not. Sorcerers apparently for experienced users - Those that know what spells to pick. Wizards much better for beginners. Can anyone weigh in on that?
     
  2. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Both builds look OK.

    It's true. You do need to know which spells will work well for you and which ones won't. With a wizard you can simply choose which spells to memorize. Sorcerers are stuck with the spells they have.

    From an experienced point of view though the wizard is very different from the sorcerer. One is intelligence-based, the other is charisma-based. This distinction becomes important if you want to pick a second/third class or a prestige class. Wizards also get higher level spells earlier (important for meeting certain prestige class requirements) and get an extra spellcasting feat every 5 levels. Sorcerers start with proficiency in simple weapons and may pick the Red Dragon Disciple prestige class.
     
  3. damedog Gems: 15/31
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    I wouldn't play the second build unless you plan to start it at very high levels. For most of the game it will be a mediocre fighter and an even worse mage. Both prestige classes take caster levels away- a big no-no when you're going to use a pure spellcasting class.
     
  4. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I don't think it's that bad. 18 sorcerer levels is plenty for the OC and SoU, and HotU is a high magic campaign. But yes, I wouldn't follow the author's leveling strat. Get those sorcerer levels asap.
     
  5. damedog Gems: 15/31
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    My personal recommendation for a sorcerer build would be a paladin/sorcerer/RDD. Take only 1 or 2 levels of paladin, whatever gets you the charisma bonus to saves, and make sure to take the Divine Might and Shield feats. They add your charisma bonus to damage and AC, making your overall melee boost definitely worth the level or two. Take True Strike as fast as you can, as well as improved power attack and improved knockdown if you can manage it, for melee awesomeness.

    The alternative to this is a bard/pale master/blackguard. This is based on the assumption that blackguard gets you the divine might/shield feats, otherwise you would have to use a paladin which means you would have to undergo both a lawful-chaotic and a good-evil alignment change to manage it. This version gets both higher combat capabilities as well as a higher DC with spells compared to the sorcerer, in exchange for an (arguably) inferior spell list. By the way, an epic pale master gets an incredibly powerful demi-lich as a companion, and an epic blackguard a powerful vrock. This was actually one of my favorite NWN characters I made of all time.
     
  6. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    The Pale Master works differently in NWN though, it does not give your character extra spells on level up (it only gives you extra spells per day). It also doesn't affect your caster level. While not a particularly serious problem for wizards, this can be crippling for a build with low sorcerer/bard levels.

    My impression over the second build is that it is attempt to create a spellsword with a large spell selection. It can work due to the sheer amount of spells per day available to the sorcerer along with how there are a lot of powerful arcane spells that ignore saving throws, so this build doesn't really need high DC. I mean I've played as a plain Cha Sorcerer throughout the entire campaign and at some point (near the end of th OC, before SoU) I decided to use an enchanted scythe and slot buffing spells and spells like True Strike/Bigby's/Isaac's Missile Swarm/Timestop (all non DC reliant) just to see if I could beat the game anyway. I did. No reason why this build, which actually has invested in melee combat-enhancing features, wouldn't work. Swapping in paladin levels for Divine Might does sound nice though.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2013
  7. SaveMeJeebus Gems: 1/31
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    I appreciate the responses. I was hoping to be linked to some builds that I could check out though.
     
  8. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    I have some links to lots of character builds, but they all appear to be dead. If you want I can give you a more detailed build of one sorcerer character I did, a Sorc X/Pal 1/Monk 1.
     
  9. SaveMeJeebus Gems: 1/31
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    I would be grateful for that. Three people, including yourself, have suggested a Sorcerer/Paladin build.

    I found a few builds on this website but unfortunately others cannot comment so I have no way in knowing how well the builds are.

    I also found recommended spells on Neverwinter Nights Wikia so I guess that is something to also take into consideration.

    I could wing it - Try whatever out and if it don't work re-roll, but unfortunately my time is limited which is why I try to plan ahead with such games. I have Neverwinter Nights Platinum and I wish to use the same character all the way through the expansions.
     
  10. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Here's my Human Sorcerer X / Palladin 1 / Monk 1 build (mostly based on the so-called Exalted Sorceress). It plays mostly as a full fledged sorcerer, but should be able to cast from full heavy armour by the end of HotU.

    The paladin level you can pretty much take whenever you want, though the later you take it, the more discipline you'll have before you take the monk level. I'd recommend to take the monk level last so you can max discipline and tumble (not that you're likely to get to lvl 40 normally, though I like to level up my characters to lvl 40 through one of those character creation modules).

    The order of the feats you may shuffle around as well, depending on your preferences, and especially the later feats you can chose whatever else you like for. Likewise, you can change the spell focus feats for another school. Especially if you want to chose some different spells as well.

    Starting stats:
    STR 12
    DEX 12
    CON 14
    INT 12
    WIS 10
    CHA 16

    Level progression (unfortunately I don't seem to be able to make a normal table here):
    Code:
    CLVL Class         Skills                    Feats                        Attribute
    1    Sorcerer (1)  Concentration, Spellcraft Combat Casting, Extend Spell 
    2    Sorcerer (2)  Concentration, Spellcraft 
    3    Sorcerer (3)  Concentration, Spellcraft Spell Penetration 
    4    Sorcerer (4)  Concentration, Spellcraft                              +1 CHA (17)
    5    Sorcerer (5)  Concentration, Spellcraft 
    6    Sorcerer (6)  Concentration, Spellcraft Empower Spell 
    7    Sorcerer (7)  Concentration, Spellcraft  
    8    Sorcerer (8)  Concentration, Spellcraft                              +1 CHA (18)
    9    Sorcerer (9)  Concentration, Spellcraft Maximize Spell 
    10   Sorcerer (10) Concentration, Spellcraft  
    11   Sorcerer (11) Concentration, Spellcraft  
    12   Sorcerer (12) Concentration, Spellcraft Spell Focus: Necromancy      +1 CHA (19)
    13   Sorcerer (13) Concentration, Spellcraft  
    14   Sorcerer (14) Concentration, Spellcraft  
    15   Sorcerer (15) Concentration, Spellcraft Quicken Spell 
    16   Sorcerer (16) Concentration, Spellcraft                              +1 CHA (20)
    17   Sorcerer (17) Concentration, Spellcraft  
    18   Sorcerer (18) Concentration, Spellcraft Greater Spell Penetration 
    19   Sorcerer (19) Concentration, Spellcraft  
    20   Paladin (1)   Concentration, Discipline                              +1 CHA (21)
    21   Sorcerer (20) Concentration, Spellcraft Still Spell 
    22   Sorcerer (21) Concentration, Spellcraft  
    23   Sorcerer (22) Concentration, Spellcraft  
    24   Sorcerer (23) Concentration, Spellcraft Automatic Still Spell I & II +1 CHA (22)
    25   Sorcerer (24) Concentration, Spellcraft  
    26   Sorcerer (25) Concentration, Spellcraft  
    27   Sorcerer (26) Concentration, Spellcraft Automatic Still Spell III, 
                                                 Automatic Quicken I 
    28   Sorcerer (27) Concentration, Spellcraft                              +1 CHA (23)
    29   Sorcerer (28) Concentration, Spellcraft  
    30   Sorcerer (29) Concentration, Spellcraft Automatic Quicken II & III 
    31   Sorcerer (30) Concentration, Spellcraft 
    32   Sorcerer (31) Concentration, Spellcraft                              +1 CHA (24)
    33   Sorcerer (32) Concentration, Spellcraft Improved Combat Casting, 
                                                 Greater Spell Focus Necromancy
    34   Sorcerer (33) Concentration, Spellcraft 
    35   Sorcerer (34) Concentration, Spellcraft 
    36   Sorcerer (35) Concentration, Spellcraft Epic Spell Focus: Necro,     +1 CHA (25)
                                                 Epic Spell Penetration
    37   Sorcerer (36) Concentration, Spellcraft 
    38   Sorcerer (37) Concentration, Spellcraft 
    39   Sorcerer (38) Concentration, Spellcraft Epic Spell: Epic Mage Armour & 
                                                 Epic Warding
    40   Monk (1)      Concentration, Discipline,                             +1 CHA (26)
                       Tumble 
    
    Spell selection:
    0th lvl: All
    1st lvl: Shield, Magic Missile, Protection from Alignment, Ray of Enfeeblement, Negative Energy Ray
    2nd lvl: Eagle's Splendor, Bull's Strength, Endurance, Death Armor, Melf's Acid Arrows, Cat's Grace
    3rd lvl: Haste, Flame Arrow, Vampiric Touch, Fireball
    4th lvl: Improved Invisibility, Ice Storm, Elemental Shield, Minor Globe of Invulnerability
    5th lvl: Cloudkill, Mestil's Acid Sheath, Energy Buffer, Firebrand
    6th lvl: Isaac's Greater Missile Storm, Bigby's Forcefull Hand, True Seeing
    7th lvl: Shadowshield, Finger of Death, Spell Mantle
    8th lvl: Horrid Wilting, Premonition, Greater Sanctuary
    9th lvl: Wail of the Banshee, Mordekainen's Disjuction, Time Stop
     
  11. SaveMeJeebus Gems: 1/31
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    Thanks Henkie. I got around to creating my character but have to pop out so I didn't even get into combat. The camera movement is quite annoying lol.
     
  12. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    The camera movement can be quite annoying, yes. I've found the top-down camera, and then moving around with the mouse (RTS style), while controlling the camera movement with the arrow keys to work the best, though.

    I wish I could find a more or less similar control scheme in NWN2, though.
     
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