1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

Should East Prussia / Kaliningrad Oblast be returned to Germany?

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by Arctic Daishi, May 10, 2013.

?

What should become of East Prussia / Kaliningrad Oblast?

  1. Kaliningrad Oblast should remain a Russian state.

    20.0%
  2. Kaliningrad Oblast should be returned to Germany.

    20.0%
  3. Kaliningrad Oblast should be given to Lithuania.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Kaliningrad Oblast should be given to Poland.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Kaliningrad Oblast should become independent / U.S. state.

    20.0%
  6. Other (state in reply)

    40.0%
  1. Arctic Daishi Gems: 6/31
    Latest gem: Jasper


    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    173
    Media:
    24
    Likes Received:
    15
    Gender:
    Male
    I've heard of it, but never gotten around to playing it. Sadly, I do not have a computer at the moment. Thanks for the recommendation.
     
  2. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    Messages:
    4,146
    Likes Received:
    224
    Gender:
    Male
    Hearts of Iron is very time-consuming and very addictive. Don't do it AD, your life will take a new path, trust me....
     
  3. Arctic Daishi Gems: 6/31
    Latest gem: Jasper


    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    173
    Media:
    24
    Likes Received:
    15
    Gender:
    Male
    Sounds like my uncle Jonathan and Civilization II. I believe he also played Hearts of Iron back in the day, or at least, he owns it.
     
  4. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    Messages:
    1,637
    Media:
    13
    Likes Received:
    132
    Gender:
    Male
    [​IMG]
    CivII was the very first computergame I ever played. It was very addictive at the time, but not worth playing anymore.
    EUII is totally different, and I played it even more than I played CivII.
     
  5. Heidrin Gems: 1/31
    Latest gem: Turquoise


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2015
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Female
    An interesting discussion, thank you for commenting. I am Heidrin from the home of the Naer. My grandfather is / was from there, Kaliningrad / Koenigsberg. My idea is to hand it over to itself, within the year, it is now 2015. We are the last descendants from the council dot pru. From governance and more. Together with my 1 cousin Nils, we are the 2 youngest "last ones" from then, before w war ii. it is in our powers to decide on the way ahead. We are from the people who founded and made the city in the first place eg. Hugo Albert N a teacher at the F college, and Caroline W N who built the first houses there. My great grandmother Olga Helene Katharine can be mentioned here too, just because her name sounds so beautiful. Semi independent we accept, with many languages incl. E. Int. schools from the German people, a long way together. The persons in governance, those in religious office, those in many more depts have letters in their hands, giving them the power to act. In this time we need the Catholic to be 1st, Orthodox Christians 2nd, Evangelish 3rd, Jewish 4th, and more and so on. I have handed this power to the politiciens , and I too wish to participate in this. Kaliningrad / Koenigsberg can be handed over even to myself, to us, in the interim. Find me, phone me. I am here, and ready to act. I am a facilitator and can work with ideas. a transition to form a new path and realies a vision, c'est possible.. For an international sustainability court we need this way. For Inge, who died for this. Love, Heidrun Inge.
     
  6. ConjurerDragon

    ConjurerDragon Ich dien ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Messages:
    411
    Media:
    1
    Likes Received:
    30
    Gender:
    Male
    I voted other because:
    - Germany already officially accepted the "Oder-Neisse-Linie" as it´s permanent eastern border as a prerequisite for reunification
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oder–Neisse_line
    So IF anything would be returned to Germany it would make far more sense to return Stettin and the eastern part of Usedom (who are on the left bank of the Oder)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oder–Neisse_line#/media/File:UsedomWolin.png
    to Germany than a part of Prussia that has no landconnection to Germany.
    - If Russia in the future would be forced to give up Kaliningrad (be it to sell it in a need for cash just like Gorbatschew sold his permission for the reunification of Germany, or in need of allies in the west if China´s next annexation plans are not just some tiny islands in the the "western phillipinian sea"/south china sea but they would try to re-negotiate the Amur-treaties
    http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middle_east_and_asia/china_ussr_e_88.jpg
    and demand Mongolia and Tannu-Tuwa) then it would be better placed under control of Brussels as an area under direct EU control.
     
  7. ConjurerDragon

    ConjurerDragon Ich dien ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Messages:
    411
    Media:
    1
    Likes Received:
    30
    Gender:
    Male
    Actually when the cite of an "army with a country"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_Army#An_army_with_a_country
    became known the capital had been no longer Königsberg for quite a while.

    At that time the Markgraviate of Brandenburg
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margraviate_of_Brandenburg#Hohenzollerns
    had inherited the Duchy of Prussia from their relatives and the state was ruled from Berlin from 1701 onward formally as "Brandenburg-Prussia" and commonly known simply as Prussia (because the kings derived their more prestigious "king" title from being "King in Prussia"). Königsberg only remained the provincial capital of one of the provinces of that state.

    That has been one of the arguments to NOT use Berlin as capital again after the re-unification (as it was Berlin from which most of the wars were waged including WW1 and 2) - but Chancellor Kohl chose to make it the capital again despite better (at least from a democratic or geographic middle of the country point of view) alternatives like Bonn, Weimar, Frankfurt or Mainz.

    Well, actually Brandenburg had been known and nicknamed as the "Streusandbüchse" (Sandbox with which ink was dried on letters?) of the Holy Roman Empire because of it´s sandy poor farmland and the Brandenburg Markgraves not only had to hire soldiers in neighbouring countries in the beginning for lack of suitable recruits at home but furthered agrarian development (e.g. by spreading the use of potatoes

    [​IMG]

    http://www.mightyheaton.com/2011/06/25/why-they-put-potatoes-on-frederick-the-greats-grave/
    and were tolerant enough to take in huge numbers of french huguenottes who fled for their lives from a France in which the catholic King persecuted them for their religion
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huguenot#Germany_and_Scandinavia
    and tolerance was one of the virtues of the then prussian state
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_virtues

    And from pre-german, germanic myths (from a time where the Anglosaxons were still living on the continent) and the example of italian fascism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Fascism
    which not only existed before the takeover of the Nazis but whose leader Benito Mussolini was one of the idols that Hitler adored for a long time.

    Well, from the point of view of Poland that is silly. Prussia had been a fief of the polish state before they had to cede their rights of it to Brandenburg-Prussia
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Prussia#/media/File:Rzeczpospolita2nar.png
    and next to the german population there were polish and lithuanian minorities.
    Letting the Soviets take that area over as well as essentially install their pet government in Poland instead of the polish exile government in London (who wouldn´t agree to have the polish borders moved westward and to cede eastern Poland to the Soviets just as those had agreed with Hitler before WW2) was done because there was no way the Allies could stop the Soviets at that time and not because it was seen as right.

    It would have been justified to give the entirety of Prussia to Poland or the northern part to Lithuania (so that after Lithuanias independance there would be no russian exclave there).
     
  8. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    Messages:
    1,637
    Media:
    13
    Likes Received:
    132
    Gender:
    Male
    In reply to ConjurerDragon:
    Much like Americans hail their Anglosaxon cultural roots, and Anglosaxons consider Saxony to be their place of origin, Konigsberg has significance as the old capital of Prussia. Even though it wasn't during Prussia's hayday.
    Very ambitious. Well, you have stumbled into the right forum to achieve your goals. We possess the clout to beat Putin into submission and secure your ancestral homeland to your rule. But you understand that these goals cannot be met without money. I can loan you the millions you need, and your nation can repay me in time. All you need to do, is deposit $25,000 to the Prince's Bank of Nigeria. After establishing that you are trustworthy, I will create a treasury account for you worth $5 million, and provide you with contacts who will help you acquire weapons and conscripts. I can even arrange a meeting with Putin himself.
     
    pplr likes this.
  9. pplr Gems: 18/31
    Latest gem: Horn Coral


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,031
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    34
    An old poll I just stumbled across. I think there is an interesting irony in current times (early 2022) since Putin is now trying to annex part or all of Ukraine (meaning the 2 areas he mentioned now are just 1 step in a multi step plan). Yes he is claiming to help 2 regions become separate states but wasn't a point of is speech that Russia should supposedly control all the territory that was formerly part of the Soviet Union? That can be taken as Putin wanting to land grab.

    It also means Putin is currently ignoring international agreements current Russia has been part of for decades.

    Putin would probably be against the idea of this bit of territory leaving Russia but is for Ukraine loosing parts of its territory that have been part of Ukraine for decades (if not arguably much longer).
     
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.