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Shoddy AI-dissapointment

Discussion in 'Neverwinter Nights (Classic)' started by Silverstar, Feb 23, 2008.

  1. Silverstar Gems: 31/31
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    [​IMG] I am so utterly dissapointed with this game. I had very high expectations. I have SoU installed. The first few hours in the OC were fun, but then I found the game extremely dull, repeatitive and boring for some reason. Gameplay was always the same, bad guys rush at me, I cast Sleep and then Fireball later and they die. Rest and repeat. Did I say dull?

    The story really did not interest me, I even blindly clicked most of the dialogues for some reason...and I have never done this before in good old IE games even when I knew the whole dialogue branch from memory.

    Maybe you know, I like to be challenged by good AI, as I am a fan of IE mods. Mods like SCS, Improved Anvil, Tactics, etc. are my favourite as they modify the AI to such levels that they offer a solid challenge and fun for an experienced player such as I.

    But, sad to say, the AI of this game is simplistic and plain stupid.

    I had to fight the boss of Chapter 1, Deshter. I thought it would be challenging and fun. The eye tool even told me the challenge rating was 'Impossible'. So I said 'now things will become interesting.' I couldn't be more wrong.

    First, I launched a few fireballs to KO the mobs of undead. The corrputed priest animated a Skeleton Chieftain but my henchman (the barbarian one, he is so dull I can't even remember his name) and my spells managed to return it to grave. I then quickly killed the ritual monsters with well placed magic missiles and acid arrows. Desther was busy casting Hold Persons which I saved each and every time. Then just when I ran out of offensive spells...

    I exited the door. Closed the door. Retread to the previous corridor. And rested. :p

    Regained my spells, came back, threw a few more fireballs, retreated and rested again and again...till the evil priest yielded.

    Now. This is absurd. NO way you can do something like this in a boss fight back in IWD or BG series.

    Do you experience such poor AI as well? Will next boss battles be harder? I really do not have the will to play on this game any longer, unless you say the game will get better. At this rate....I do not know.

    Are there any mods for updating and increasing the AI? I know there are tons of modules but are they all have this bad AI? I can't stop comparing the fights of mods from BG series...and NWN really looks pale in comparison.
     
  2. Erod Gems: 14/31
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    Hmm... Cloudkill on the dragon? :-)

    As for NWN, I recently played through the OC, SoU and HotU. The OC is extremely boring, SoU and HotU are somewhat more interesting, but both are easy on the basic difficulty. I did not try out any modules myself and now that I completed it I am not going to touch this game again, ever.
     
  3. Sir Fink Gems: 13/31
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    I've said it many times on these forums: why do so many of you BG guys mod the heck out of BG but don't bother with NWN? Yes, NWN's stock AI is horrendous. Go to nwvault.com and search for Tony_K's AI mod. He's got one for NWN2 as well now and it completely changes the game. Bioware should hire the dude.
     
    Silverstar likes this.
  4. Rotku

    Rotku I believe I can fly Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    It's not BG. Don't expect it to be BG. The two are completely different beasts, both with their good and bad sides. I've found so much more play time from NWN than I have ever had from BG (not to mention IWD or any of the other FR CRPGs) - one I played once through, without getting too bored, the other has kept me amused for years and years, with very few breaks.

    NWN is a brilliant game. Yes, the OC is horrible. SoU does take a step up (would probably even be better with improved AI override). HotU is excellent - a very well made game, with a reasonable story. I would really suggest ignoring the first two campaigns and starting with HotU or even some fan made mods (some of which are far, far better than any BW made one). In the end of the day, it is the community that makes NWN the game it is - to get the most out of it, you really do have to look at the community made material (just like Sir Fink said).
     
  5. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

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    That's too cheesy Silverstar... It's not very serious to complain about difficulty if you use such tacks yourself. :p

    I second what Sir Fink and Rotku said.

    Bear in mind that this game is not BG and that the story and henchmen in NWN can't bear the comparison with BG2.

    Actually there are some really good mods out there, make sure you check them out. NWN vault is the reference and there are reviews of the best modules to help you decide which mod you want to play.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2008
  6. Silverstar Gems: 31/31
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    :p Yes, BG 2 has its flaws, I do not dare to suggest it is perfect. But, with lots of difficulty and AI enhancing mods, such parlor tricks do not work any more. BG 2 with mods is closest to perfect, since it evolves and changes...constantly.

    I know dear Charadras, I know what I do is the epitome of cheese. I am saddened by the fact that I can do such cheap tricks so damn easily and the poor artificial intelligence of the game can not open up a door to follow me in an epic boss battle. And if it is so easy and obvious to use cheese I do not feel much guilt.

    I do not say NWN is a bad game. Far from it. The quality of the graphics, environments, the new engine&interface, ability to create your own campaigns and worlds and play with your friends, plus fully implemented 3E rules...this game is a blast, no doubt about it!

    But it falls short when it comes to challenge players, well at least me, in single player game, the way BG (with mods) does. Sigh.

    I have started SoU campaign, and went for a fighter this time. This is a very serious change for me as I never ever created a fighter type back in IE games, always being a fan of spell casters.

    Suprisingly, I have found the game more bearable and fun with playing a cool and skilled fighter. The combat animations really add up the fun, the way characters parry, dodge, avoid attacks etc. are very flowing and realistic for my poor eyes who are used to swing/bash action of IE games. And once I raised the violence level to 'special' in game options, combat became more interesting! Loved chopping my enemies to bloody pulps, heh heh heh! :evil:

    I think a good fighter build can do it for me in SoU campaign. Spellcasting is too much of trouble in NWN and actually makes combats easier. While fighter is always full of adrenaline and tactics!

    Thank you all for your ideas, BTW, I will look into some fan created modules sure enough. And I will shower you good people with lots of questions, hopefully. I just do not have much time, with my school taking the majority of my time...In the mean time I still have to finish a TuTu game, play BG2 with the new and cool mod SCS II, and then there is my IWD2 game with Tactics mod still waiting at chapter 2 (I am 100% satisfied with my current party too!) and then all of a sudden my friend gives me PST CDs and it is soo much fun (I have never finished it before!) but time draining as hell! I just do not have time!

    Wish me luck! :)
     
  7. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

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    Good luck Silverstar! ;)
     
  8. underthewronghat Gems: 5/31
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    I think you are on the right track by doing a fighter for NWN. One of the problems with NWN vice BG or IWD is the interface itself --which seems to lend itself more to a front-liner. Of course you can solo a spellcaster, but soloing a spellcaster is a completely different task than having a party with a few tanks a spellcaster... Strategically, it always helps to have a frontliner, which is why, I think, NWN lends itself to frontliners...

    Of course there is the henchman -ahem- that's the AI nightmare... Wouldn't it be nice if the henchman would protect your PC spellcaster? For that matter, wouldn't it be nice if your spellcasting henchman would always throw fireballs a safe distance from your PC? All that to say, that it's literally a party of two including your henchman, and three with a summoned something, but because the stock AI is less than adequate, it's more practically a party of one.

    For that very reason, I usually choose Deekin as a henchman, because you can get him to do more what he should do: sing songs to aid you, and stay back to shoot crossbow bolts into the fray... Plus he's funny...

    Anyway, I suspect that soloing a spellcaster through BG will create similar problems, but having never tried soloing anyone through BG (I like the NPC's), I'm not sure how different it gets.

    Also, regarding plot-lines and the comparative linearity of NWN, I think the 3D interface was pretty new to D&D CRPG's, and the designers probably weren't sure how complexity would play out in the new interface. I think that's a caveat of the OC which seemed to improve in the expansions.

    I liked SOU the best, then the OC, then HotU... Haven't tried any modules to recommend, sorry...

    Actually, I'm surprised everyone liked HotU so much. It seemed to reveal more of the 3rd ed D&D problem of higher level characters becoming magic-item christmas-trees... A little too super-munchkin for my taste, although--

    (Spoiler)

    There is a part in HotU where no magic will work --and that becomes extremely challenging. I was running a ranger/rogue, so hide in shadows and backstab was my saving grace. Up to that point I had kicked butt in combat, but without magic -poof- the bare character was hardly able to survive.
     
  9. Morthond Gems: 3/31
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    Just to be a nuisance, I did exactly that against Firkraag no less, with my solo Dwarven Beserker. I just ran back up the stairs and rest-until-heal and came back, repeat.
     
  10. Merlanni

    Merlanni ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    My NWN1 character. : Merlanni: half elf fig6/wiz20/aa/3 Most of the time solo and on d&d rules. Boring, not that boring. Okay, hotu was nice but boring, no. See it as an action rpg, and not a thinking one. if you want to think take ToEE. turnbased 3,5 rules. But beware you must patch.mod the crap out of it to work properly.

    BG2 has a status that makes it impossible for any game to be as good. It is in our minds.
     
  11. Silverstar Gems: 31/31
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    Gee it is nice to know other people find NWN boring now and then too. I was afraid it was only me and that I would be scolded right here by die-hard fans. :p

    Hey, I also now got HotU and installed the mod Sir Fink so kindly reccomended. Wow! And I mean, wow, that mod made enemies so smart that weak goblins kept kicking my character's butt in the beginning over and over, literally! And this is just how I love my games..I was able to beat them all, with smart tactics, careful timing, and a bit of luck, and immensely enjoyed it.

    I now returned to my BG games but NWN is now worth playing and I will not uninstall it, no sir. I introduced the game to a friend with that mod and he loved it too, played it day and night (ofcourse I can not persuade him to try out BG games as since they are not 3d, they must be crap games :p nothing could be further than the truth! )..this must be good. :thumb: Thank you, big thank you Sir Fink for that reccomendation! (rep+1! :) )
     
  12. Scythesong Immortal Gems: 19/31
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    NWN is good if you want hack and slash and think tactics in terms of move/attack/casting orders and PC builds instead of the whole party strategies you had to come up in the BG series. The focus is on one person rather than a party, which one might find unbelievably boring and immensely annoying until you finally relent and start changing your perspectives little by little.
    After that it's a pretty decent game, though you might fare somewhat better if you played online or played the sequel instead. (NWN2 WITH MoTB, much more BG-ish) The storyline's not linked so you can play NWN2 alone.

    When I first played NWN1 the first thing that striked me as ridiculous was how I couldn't control my henchmen and summons. They just had to give them these special AI's so they could fend for themselves, which explains how my animal companion got me killed by blocking the doorway and trapping my badly injured Druid in a roomful of very angry Orc Berserkers and how my henchman got us all killed by setting off a trap... He pretty much found it in his best interest to charge into a group of monsters a room away rather than finish what he was doing (despite all my efforts to get him to do otherwise), and that was that.
    That I had no way of having them go into a room before me (even the Barbarian thinks casters should go into a room full of monsters first), or how I had to deal with stopping every once in a while just to let them catch up or to "unstuck" one or two of them didn't help.
    So I relented.
    I made a new, Neutral Evil Druid, set the difficulty to Hardcore, threw area effect spells around me without caring who or what else got hit, and just made it a point to return to Tyr's temple every once in a while whenever I felt I needed more fodder. Good fun.
    Online's a bit dfferent, but not by much.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2008
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