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Rearranging the stats of the NPCs

Discussion in 'Baldur's Gate (Classic)' started by Bassil Warbone, Sep 1, 2006.

  1. Bassil Warbone Gems: 12/31
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    If you could rearrange the stats of the NPCs who's would you rearrange and howwould you arrange them? Staying with the same number of total stat points, just taking from one atribute to add to another. And just to make it a little more reasonable no atribute can be lowered below 6 and no two atributes can be lowered below 8. The ones I would change are:

    Khalid: goes from 15 16 17 12 10 09
    Khalid: to 15 17 18 10 10 09
    Jaheira:goes from 15 14 17 10 14 15
    Jaheira: to 12 16 17 10 14 15

    Coran: goes from 14 20 12 14 09 16
    Coran: to 14 20 17 11 09 14
    I almost hate to change Coran he is already a force.

    Skie: goes from 11 18 15 15 08 13
    Skie: to 10 18 16 17 08 11

    Garrick:goes from 14 16 09 13 14 15
    Garrick: to 10 17 06 15 14 18

    Safana:goes from 13 17 12 16 09 17
    Safana: to 12 18 10 17 09 18
    Again, almost hate to change this one. She is almostperfect!

    Kagain:goes from 16 12 20 15 11 08
    Kagain: to 17 16 20 10 11 08

    Eldoth:goes from 16 12 15 13 10 16
    Eldoth: to 12 16 16 13 10 15

    Montaron:goes from16 17 15 12 13 09
    Montaron: to 17 19 17 10 10 08

    Viconia:goes from 10 19 08 16 15 14
    Viconia: to 08 19 15 10 17 13

    Shar-Teel:goes from18/58 17 09 14 07 11
    Shar-Teel: to 18/58 17 16 10 07 08

    Xzar:goes from 14 16 10 17 16 10
    Xzar: to 12 17 10 17 17 10
     
  2. Killjoy Gems: 8/31
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    Coran is just fine as-is. Same with Imoen.

    Kagain is OK where he is too, since DEX gauntlets and strength spells & potions take care of him just fine.
     
  3. Felinoid

    Felinoid Who did the what now? ★ SPS Account Holder

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    If it makes your game more fun, go ahead and do it. But I've never felt the need to mess with fairly balanced NPCs. Of course, there are some that could use a little tweaking because of the oddity of their stat distribution. For example, Eldoth's special ability is creating poison arrows. These are a missile weapon. But he not only has no DEX, he's got a surprising STR score as if he were going to be engaging in melee combat most often. :skeptic: My suggestion:

    INT to STR, STR to DEX, DEX to CON, CON to INT
    16, 12, 15, 13, 10, 16 -> 13, 16, 12, 15, 10, 16

    No point management (which is not how PnP stat-rolling typically works anyway*), just rearranging where he put his scores. And it makes him look a hell of a lot more like a bard, and less like a (pretty) fighter. And, of course, if you want to keep the CON you can just swap STR and DEX and forget the other stuff, resulting in:
    12, 16, 15, 13, 10, 16

    *Of the 6 methods detailed in the 2e PHB, the only one that even comes close to point management is Method VI. With Method VI, you start with 8s in every score and roll 7d6. You then add the dice where you wish; you cannot split up the points on each die. Which ironically means that if you roll all 6s (or five 6s and one 5), you can't assign one of the dice because that would result in a 20, so you end up with a character that has 14s across the board. Whereas if you'd rolled some of them lower, you'd have better scores. :heh:

    But the main point is that it's still not "one point here, one point there" into infinity. In fact, a fair number of these characters couldn't be created using that method. (Though it would help explain Coran and Kagain if they were allowed to put a 6 and a 5 into that score before racial adjustments, Coran would require a minimum of 8 dice and Kagain would require a minimum of 9, while it's only supposed to be 7.)
     
  4. Redrake Gems: 7/31
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    Except for the bards and the gnomes I see no point in messing with the existing NPC's. They are balanced as they are.
     
  5. Decados

    Decados The Chosen One

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    Most of the NPCs are fine the way they are. I disagree with knocking points off of the normal 'dump stats' to increase the 'power stats'. They look more realistic when not designed for maximum combat efficiency.
     
  6. raptor Gems: 16/31
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    It could be interesting to see a sort of "rearange stats npc mod" perhaps like how Felinoid said. But i would also have liked to changed some of the slightly "upped" like corans 20 (it doesnt even DO anything iirc, does same as dex 19).
     
  7. Felinoid

    Felinoid Who did the what now? ★ SPS Account Holder

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    The same way that Korgan's 20 CON doesn't do anything HP-wise, but kicks in the regen, Coran's 20 DEX doesn't do anything combat-wise, but kicks in some thief skill bonuses.
     
  8. Bassil Warbone Gems: 12/31
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    That is not what I was doing and was not the reasoning behind some of the changes I made. Some of the changes were to allow some NPC's to dual class and some of the others were to even out the NPC's to make playing them a little more enjoyable. there may be a couple that I increased to much, but who the hell plays fighters with int. 14 and so on.
     
  9. Decados

    Decados The Chosen One

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    Actually, Bassil, what you were doing was generally making them more powerful. Khalid, Coran, Kagain, Montaron, Viconia and Shar-Teel have all had their physical stats boosted. While this may not have been your original intention, this is what happened.

    Role-players.
     
  10. Bassil Warbone Gems: 12/31
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    As I said, some I may have shuffled a little to much but my intent is to make playing them a little more enjoyable.
    Having a fighter with 14 in INT. and 14in STR. makes about as much sense as a mage with 13 INT. and 16in STR. it would be very extrem Role-playing and makes for diminished game play and enjoyment, in my opinion.
     
  11. Klorox

    Klorox Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mĂȘnu! Veteran

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    I don't see any reason to change any stats, nor do I see any reason to rip each other here.

    AD&D was made to be played many different styles.
     
  12. ObviousDelirium Gems: 3/31
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    Actually, from a role-playing angle, a fighter with 14 str and 14 int makes a lot of sense, even for role-playing in BG (people actually do that, you know?), sure, they're not the strongest of all, however, a higher intelligence would mean that said fighter could find different ways of getting out of various situations without necessarily resorting to "FIGHTER BASH SKULL", they could also think twice before charging into the melee, choosing the adequate weapon or fighting style for said encounter. It's not because they have a higher int and aren't exceptionally strong that they necessarily need to be interested in magic or other things.
     
  13. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Having a fighter with 14 INT makes great sense from a role-playing point of view. And in more advanced games like IWD2 and NWN, having more INT can give you access to better feats (like Expertise) and alternative dialogue options and quest resolutions.
     
  14. Felinoid

    Felinoid Who did the what now? ★ SPS Account Holder

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    If the highest you roll is a 14, that's what you're going to put in STR. And if you roll two 14s...well, that's just a roleplaying choice as to where to put it since it's not going to make a bit of difference anyway (well, maybe in CHA). There are also finesse or ranged fighters that pick DEX first and STR second, which might result in 14 18 - 14 - - if those were the best rolls.

    OTOH, a mage with 16 STR and 13 INT makes sense too from a purely BG1-powergaming perspective. The only things you need exceptional INT for are learning many different spells per spell level (proven not needed by the sorcerer's popularity) and lore. OTOH, STR not only helps you in melee combat, it also lets you carry more. (And no, I can't believe I'm advocating this either. :nolike: )

    Now, I can understand wanting to change some stats since some distributions don't make sense, but it's rather egocentric to think that everybody would have more fun with your idea of "efficient" NPCs.
     
  15. Decados

    Decados The Chosen One

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    Just to add something to what has been said above. I assume that you are referring to Coran with the 14s, as going by the stats you posted, he is the only one with 14 in Str and Int. If this is the case, there is nothing wrong with having a non-exceptional Str- he already has 20 Dex and is widely considered to be one of the best NPCs, suggesting that no-one is really bothered by 14 Str.
     
  16. Silverstar Gems: 31/31
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    I just noticed, if you drop poor Sir Garrick's CON to 6, he will have HP penalty per hit dice, not a good (or healthy) thing if you ask me.
     
  17. raptor Gems: 16/31
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    Hey! one of my favorite characters is a mage with Strength 17 and Inteligence of 7 !
     
  18. Bassil Warbone Gems: 12/31
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    As I said, I may have made some extreme changes but I made the topic after some disappointing play. I get frustrated with the game sometimes and when Isee what could be a great chraracter made mediocre by thier stat distibution. I fully understand the concept of roleplaying but I seriously doubt that anyone rolles up a lot of warriors intent on making them intelligent to the point of compromising thier strength, constitution, or dexterity. I like having well rounded PCs to, but not to the point it makes them weak in useful stats unless, I am roleplaying a PC with a theme in mind. All I want is to make playing the NPCs a little MORE enjoyable. I think they are playable the way they are and I ENJOY playing them, but sometimes I just want to see them a LITTLE closer to what a PC would look like. Not overly powerful but maybe a Shar-Teel with a CON. bonus would be nice or a Montaron tough as his attitude, thats all. I thought it would be interesting to see if anyone else feels the same way and if so, how would they change them. Again, as I have said, I was a little extreme in some of my changes, I was a little frustrated at the time, but I still think the idea is a good one.
     
  19. Felinoid

    Felinoid Who did the what now? ★ SPS Account Holder

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    Yes, it is a good idea to change things if the way things are isn't fun for you. That's kind of the whole idea behind the modding scene, really. But regardless of intentions, that way you did it looks like powergaming.
    Incorrect. Perhaps a 3e wizard with an INT of 7, but a 2e mage needs at least 9. ;)
     
  20. Bassil Warbone Gems: 12/31
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    "But regardless of intentions, that way you did it looks like powergaming."

    I agree, but as I have said, I was a little extreme in some of my changes, I was a little frustrated at the time. But I am still interested in knowing if anyone else feels the same way and if so, how would they change them.
     
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