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Racism and Refusing Services

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by Celesialraven, Mar 15, 2007.

  1. Celesialraven Gems: 11/31
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    I just came across this article during my hourly news crawl. The crux of the article is that a bar in Quebec refused two black men services and kicked them out of the establishment because they had a "no black policy." The media set up a second encounter to confirm the case: "The rule was exposed after Journal de Montréal journalist Stéphane Alarie visited the bar disguised as a black man." Now, i'm not sure how you would disguise yourself as a black man, but the issue went to court. Surprisingly enough, the bar owner managed to have the fine reduced and is appealing again. How is this possible? He says he believes in his policy as "black customers hurt his business." :eek: I can't imagine how this could even be contested in court. It is blatant racism that shocked me... and when the incident happened. I would have expected to see this occur at the turn of the 20th century, not the 21st.

    What are your thoughts on the matter? Have you ever witnessed a scene such as that described in the article where persons of different ethnicities were turned away or refused services simply for not belonging to the majority?
     
  2. Shadow Assassin Gems: 13/31
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    My parents own a parcel of land out bye Perry, a town a short distance away from Tallahasee. An African American public official from Tallahasee was told he'd have to go around back to pick up his food.

    Here in Jacksonville I know of atleast one establishment that will only serve blacks. What's even worse is that they make some of the best Barbeque in town(my mother brought some home after some African Americans at her work brought her some back for lunch). I can't even go an get some and I'm less than half white, just not black.
     
  3. Cúchulainn Gems: 28/31
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    I got refused food in a Filipino cafe in Belfast (yes Belfast, N.Ireland) because I'm not Asian. The delightful lady said "We don't serve chips, GET OUT!" when I politely asked if I could see the menu.

    In the UK racism is looked down upon, except for Roma and Irish Travellers (or dirty gypsies as we happen to be called). Lots of places refuse to serve us if they happen to know your ethnic background.
     
  4. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

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    I went to buy shoes in Hamburg, and there was a black family waiting to be served for at least half an hour while I was trying shoes. Clerks were free. Nobody served them.
    But then, in Hamburg I also wanted to go into a shop and was refused entry by a doorman popping up out of nowhere: 'Too expensive for you', using the German 'Du', which is impolite. No class. Nothing is snobbier than a snob's goon. I forced him to correct that by asking him: 'What did you say?' using the correct 'Sie'. He got the nuance and apologised. Didn't let me in however. Besides, he was right, it was too expensive for me ;)

    Something like that never happened to me in Cologne.
     
  5. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

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    Getting a job, finding a flat to rent or just being allowed in a discotheque can be a real pain if you don't look "right."

    I know for a fact that police officers think that I'm suspicious looking... Having mixed origins is certainly a blessing but it can be a curse as well when dealing with racists or people whose job is to assume that if you don't fit in because of your looks you must have a certain background and/or be different -in other words suspicious.
     
  6. Shadow Assassin Gems: 13/31
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    I do agree with you there, though I find the good outweighs the bad. After all who the heck is someone of multi-racial origins going to be racist against? People with a single heritage?
     
  7. Barmy Army

    Barmy Army Simple mind, simple pleasures... Adored Veteran

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    You're a gypo pikey? No way..
     
  8. Fabius Maximus Gems: 19/31
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    There was a story in the newspapers last year about an african immigrant trying to get a beer in a tavern in Berlin-Kreuzberg. The waitress refused because he's black and bid him to leave. He got angry, complained and then was thrown out by some of the guests, IIRC.

    Ironically, Kreuzberg is a quarter where many immigrants live.

    It's quite sad, but you cannot do anything about it because the owners have the right to set their own policy.
     
  9. Cúchulainn Gems: 28/31
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    Yep Barmy. Though I should point out that I do live in a house and work for the government - never sold pegs or occupied a caravan for more than 2 days at a time :D My grandparents were the first generation to become 'settled', but we have not completely forgotten our culture.

    Some of us enforce certain stereotypes, and some of us don't. Kinda like the working class - some of them are chavs and some try to better themselves.
     
  10. kuemper Gems: 31/31
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    The same way black people disguise themselves as white people. Ever see movies called Soul Man, where a white student 'becomes' black in order to get into his college of choice; or White Chicks, where 2 black FBI agents 'become' white debutantes? The SFX dealing with makeup is incredible these days.

    I've never been refused service for being white. I have been refused service for being American though.
     
  11. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    That's illegal, so it can't be an official policy. Of course I understand it doesn't have to be...
     
  12. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    This is a very disturbing story. I don't know what the laws are in Quebec, but that is definitely illegal in the U.S. Assuming this was a public bar, you cannot deny service to someone based on the person's race. If, however, this was a private club, meaning that you need a membership to be able to get inside, then the ownership does have some discretion as to who they allow to become a member.

    I am not saying that racism isn't present in the U.S. anymore - it certainly is - but it seems like Europe (and evidently Canada) now have racism to a greater degree than the U.S. I should also state that I'm not trying to absolve the U.S. of its history of slavery. After all, the reason why there is a significant black population in the U.S. is because of its history of slavery.

    Ragusa - how could the guy tell by looking at you that you couldn't afford the items in the shop? IIRC, you are a lawyer, and you probably make a pretty decent salary. I find it hard to believe that there are many stores that would be priced out of your reach. Also, I've never heard of a store that had a doorman on guard to screen who could and who could not enter the establishment. What kind of shop was this? It's just a very odd situation. I can't afford a Ferrari, but I wouldn't be prevented from entering a Ferrari dealership.

    I cannot say that I have ever been specifically targeted against because of my race. However, I certainly have been profiled. Allow me to explain. You know how they "randomly" search the bags of people at the airport? I can't remember the last time I got on a flight and I wasn't pulled out of the line and asked to open my carry-on bag. Maybe it's just coincidence, but I imagine that male, 30-something, the goatee and my Eastern European heritage makes me look more like a potential terrorist than your average Joe.
     
  13. Cúchulainn Gems: 28/31
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    Thats a bit of a generalization considering Europe is made up of many unique countries. I'm sure you could find more cases of racism in Philadelphia or Pittsburgh compared to Dublin or Belfast. We also don't have any groups like the KKK and some of their parades have numbers compared to the Apprentice Boys of Derry.
     
  14. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

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    Aldeth,
    well, you err. There are quite a few shops that are priced out of my reach. I'm not rich, and I haven't yet done my bar exam. I have to work since I am self-supporting. As for my looks, iirc I wore: TNF outdoor jacket, shirt, jeans, sneakers - I considered (and still do) myself well dressed, if casual.

    What I didn't like was the snobbery sans style. I can forgive a snob if he has style. But I just hate a guy who makes as much as I do, or less, and spends his day standing at the door of an expensive shop telling me with his nose in the clouds that the shop that happens to employ him is too expensive for me. I also lose interest in the shop, eternally, because I think having such a clown at the door is a bad business attitude.

    Hamburg, I have to add, has Germany's highest density of millionaires. And in some places they prefer to stay among themselves.
     
  15. JSBB Gems: 31/31
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    As it is in Canada which is why the court decided that the bar owner would have to pay $16,000. This is a small bar owner, not a mega corporation. That is probably a lot of money for him.
     
  16. Equester Gems: 18/31
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    which hat did you pull that out off? i meen first off europe is not a country and hardly homogen, so its quite a generalization.

    i meen my general impression is that the racism in my own country is on return in the general population and thats even after muslims burned our flags and embassies over silly drawings. that said our goverment on the other hand, seems to take a bit to many advices from our most racist party, Dansk folkeparti ( the danish's peoples party).
     
  17. revmaf

    revmaf Older, not wiser, but a lot more fun

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    I grew up in the racist, segregated American south. There were only whites in my schools until I was a sophomore in high school. When my late uncle built his doctor's office in the 1960's he built a separate entrance and waiting area for his black patients - as was the universal custom then. Those were the days of separate public restrooms, water fountains, and entrances for non-whites.

    It is appalling that anyone should be refused service in Canada or anywhere because of their skin color. But it happens all the time, still. IMHO the bar owner deserved the fine, and if the amount is a burden to him, that's the whole point.


    Ah, humanity. Almost - not quite - makes me want to believe in the Calvinist doctrine of total depravity. Seems like nothing changes much among us. :(
     
  18. Barmy Army

    Barmy Army Simple mind, simple pleasures... Adored Veteran

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    @ Cuch. Pikey's deserve their reputation and the scorn they get. All they do is turn up in a town in a bunch of cheap ass trailer trucks, and rob the town. They don't contribute at all to the society and are an eye sore for the locals. No-one wants to live near a pack of bloody gypsies. Filthy, thieving scum with little shítty kids who nick cars and joy ride them. You can't deny it man. They deserve all the stuff fired their way, they're not wanted.

    You don't count as a pikey in the slightest if you live in a house and hold down a job.
     
  19. Shadow Assassin Gems: 13/31
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    Barmy, that's like saying every kid from the projects is a murdering, thieving gangster. My GM at my last job was from the Miami projects. He had degrees from both FAMU and FSU, spoke impecible english, and was probably one of the most intelligent, unbiased people I had ever met. Yes, there's a reason that the stereotypes exist, but that doesn't mean everyone from the community, nor even the majority of the community, fits the stereotype.
     
  20. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    AND
    Well, it was deliberately general, because there are big range of examples in this thread alone, and others I can think about. I wasn't going to go through each individual example, as I thought that was obvious, but since it isn't, here goes:

    One example from Ireland:

    Unidentified specifically - England perhaps?
    Then we have Germany:

    I could go on. I could mention the riots in France (although technically Muslims of Middle Eastern descent are genetically caucasian). The racial tension in eastern Europe speaks for itself. Just in the examples listed by others here, you'd be facing major problems if you tried to pull some of that stuff in the U.S., although I'm sure in some outback areas of the deep south it's still a common occurance. I simply think that the U.S. is becoming more accepting of race, simply because the U.S. is already so racially diverse. I'm sorry if I offended anyone, as that was not my intent. That was simply my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions: "Opinions are like @$$holes - everyone has one." I certainly wasn't attempting to describe specific people on this board as racist.
     
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