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Questions about Breach, enemy mage's Spell Triggers

Discussion in 'BG2: Throne of Bhaal (Classic)' started by Strife, Dec 26, 2007.

  1. Strife Gems: 6/31
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    Hello all,

    I was doing the quest for Mae'Var to kill Rayic Gethras in the docks, when I noticed something about Breach.

    Breach's spell description states that it removes all combat protections except for Iron Skins. When I casted Breach on Rayic, it ignored his spell protections (as it should be), and removed his Protection from Magical Weapons and Protection from Normal Missiles, but it didn't remove his Stoneskin!

    Isn't Breach supposed to remove that as well?

    Also, when Rayic first became hostile, I noticed this in my combat log:
    Rayic Gethras- Spell Trigger - Fired
    Rayic Gethras- Shielded
    Rayic Gethras- Protected from Magical Weapons
    Rayic Gethras- Protected from Normal Missiles

    Now, I'm assuming the "Shielded" in his Spell Trigger refers to some sort of spell protection, maybe Spell Deflection or Spell Trap, because he became surrounded in a ball of energy, and does not refer to the level 1 spell Shield?

    The only mods I'm using are G3 FixPack and G3 BG2 Tweaks.

    Any help would be welcome, thanks!
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2007
  2. Master Leo Gems: 7/31
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    "shielded" probably refers to spell shield (lvl 5)

    the second question, you've probably breached him successfully, but soon after he fired a stoneskin contingency
     
  3. mata5 Gems: 3/31
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    I don't know, i always fire 2 breaches at him so everything he's got is down...

    Should it say in the combat log that he casts Stoneskin or not?
     
  4. Strife Gems: 6/31
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    Well, I tried Breaching him twice as well, it still didn't remove his Stoneskin.

    And there was no message in the combat log showing that he fired off a Stoneskin with a Contingency.
     
  5. mata5 Gems: 3/31
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    Is it a model bug then?

    I know that after removing protections with 2 Breaches, Minsc had to hit him twice to kill him... :D
     
  6. Stu Gems: 20/31
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    Spellshield negates the next anti-protection spell cast against you, specifically it blocks Spell Thrust, Secret Word, Breach, Lower Resistance, Pierce Magic, Ruby Ray of Reversal, Pierce Shield, Khelbans Warding Whip, Piece Shield and Spell Strike.

    So in theory your breach should have been blocked. Could have his protection from Magical Weapons have run out (it only lasts 4 rounds)?
     
  7. Strife Gems: 6/31
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    Well, I'm not positive that the "Shielded" portion of his Spell Trigger was indeed a Spell Shield, once his Spell Trigger fired, he was enclosed in a glowing ball of energy like a Spell Trap. Is that the default animation for Spell Shield as well?

    My party was pounding on him the moment combat started, you know how Minsc cries, "No effect? I need a bigger sword!" when his attacks are ineffective.. and Jan was casting Breach on him the moment he turned hostile. Protection from Magical Weapons lasts 4 rounds, so in theory, if it was a Spell Shield and absorbed the Breach, my party members would still be screaming their heads off about their weapons not working for at least 2 more rounds, I believe.

    Also, I recall that I did get the 3 lines in my combat log about Breach dispelling specific protections, combat protections, spell protections, etc, and my characters not yelling that their weapons didn't work, but that glowing ball of energy around him was still there, and it still took a few rounds for them to start doing real damage.

    I'm at work now, but I'll test it out again tonight from an earlier savegame.
     
  8. Master Leo Gems: 7/31
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    glowing ball of energy is a default animation for several spells, most notably spell trap, spell shield and spell immunity (maybe cleric's shield of archons as well, i can't remember ATM)
    you always have to read the combat log to figure out the actual spell being used
     
  9. Strife Gems: 6/31
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    Okay, I just did some testing.

    When Rayic Gethras first goes hostile, this shows in the combat log:

    Rayic Gethras- Spell Trigger - Fired
    Rayic Gethras- Shielded
    Rayic Gethras- Protected from Magical Weapons
    Rayic Gethras- Protected from Normal Missiles

    And now he's surrounded by a glowing ball of energy. I order my party to attack, I get various "Weapon ineffective" messages in the combat log (as expected, he's protected from magical weapons now).

    My character casts Breach on him, I get the following:
    Rayic Gethras- Specific Protections Dispelled
    Rayic Gethras- Spell Protections Removed
    Rayic Gethras- Combat Protections Dispelled

    Glowing ball of energy is still there, so I don't think it's a Spell Shield, otherwise it should have absorbed the Breach and disappeared. I order my party to attack, I see in the combat log that they hit, but no damage is done to Rayic, and I don't get any more "Weapon ineffective" messages - this indicates that Protection from Magical Weapons was dispelled, I believe.

    Jan casts a second Breach, this time I only get this:
    Rayic Gethras- Spell Protections Removed

    Glowing ball of energy still surrounds him, we attack again, still no luck hitting him. A few more hits, I assume his Stoneskin is depleted, and we slay him easily.

    I'm not sure what's going on, is it possible that Rayic Gethras has a special version of Stoneskin?

    Also, my combat log does not show him firing off a Stoneskin Contingency at any point.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2007
  10. Felinoid

    Felinoid Who did the what now? ★ SPS Account Holder

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    The glowing ball of energy is a Globe of Invulnerability. I think those two (Minor and regular) are the only ones that have that particular visual effect.
    Stoneskin never shows in the log AFAIK. But the rising stone animation is there.
     
  11. mata5 Gems: 3/31
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    Oh, that explains it. Tnx Fel...
     
  12. Strife Gems: 6/31
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    Well, that's another issue to take up with the original programmers if his Spell Trigger said "Shielded", but it was actually a Globe of Invulnerability.

    Felinoid: It's very possible I missed the rising stone animation, and it may be the case that the firing of a Stoneskin Contingency never shows in the combat log, however, that's still not a very satisfactory explanation.

    I did cast Breach on him twice, and attacks made after each casting were recorded as successful hits in the combat log, but no damage was done each time.

    If Globe of Invulnerability was supposed to stop Breach, by rights his Protection from Normal Missiles and Protection from Magical Weapons should not have been dispelled, and I would still have seen "Weapon ineffective" messages in the combat log.

    Attacks were made against him while the first Breach was being cast in the first round of combat. Assuming the Breach succeeded in the second round, that still leaves two rounds of effectiveness for Protection from Magical Weapons, but like I said, I got no "Weapon ineffective" messages during that period.
     
  13. CamDawg

    CamDawg The gaze of the Wolf reaches into our soul Veteran

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    Like most of the triggers used by enemy mages, the messages in the combat window are not quite accurate and/or complete. Rayic's opening spell trigger fires off Stoneskin, Globe of Invulnerability, Protection from Magic Weapons, and Protection from Normal Missiles. He's also got a highly weighted block in his script to recast Stoneskin if it runs out or is dispelled (he's got one memorized, so it'll only be recast once).
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2007
  14. Strife Gems: 6/31
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    Well, that explains it then. I've read the BG2 Spell Reference and it mentioned that, for example, enemy mages were scripted to cast Vocalize when they were silenced, whether they had memorized the spell or not.

    Thanks, Camdawg.
     
  15. jiansonz Gems: 2/31
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    Isn´t it, like, illegal to fire off more than three spells in a trigger? :rolleyes:
    Or is both a Spell Trigger and a Spell Sequencer?
     
  16. Decados

    Decados The Chosen One

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    Well, yes, but that doesn't mean that your enemies always play by the rules (eg Spell Immunity in a Contingency).
     
  17. Proteus_za

    Proteus_za

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    Stoneskin isnt affected by Breach. One of the components of David W's Sword Coast Strategems II mod actually allows it to affect stoneskin.
     
  18. Sikret Gems: 13/31
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    It's not a trigger or a sequencer; it's prebuffing.

    It should be assumed that the mage had predicted or had been aware of your presence and had cast those spells beforehand. However, you can know of those buffing spells only when the battle practically begins. That's why you see the message on the screen when the battle begins and not earlier.

    Stoneskin is affected by Breach even in the vanilla game. It's Iron Skins which can't be removed by Breach in the original game, but it has been fixed by Improved Anvil since long time ago (= the very first versions of the mod) and so even Iron Skins can be removed by Breach for players who install and play IA. Perhaps, other modders have also added the fix into their mods.
     
  19. Truper Gems: 8/31
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    If it was pre-buffing, you would *not* know what has been cast, until whatever you were trying to do didn't work. Unless of course you're assuming that the mage in question can't resist what Irenicus would call a "villian's exposition": "Ha ha! You fools! I heard you coming up my stairs, and now I have cast Protection from Magic Weapons, Protection from Normal Missles, Stoneskin and Globe of Invulnerability! You cannot hope to defeat me! Muhahahaha!
     
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