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POLL: Make a tactical mod for IWD2?

Discussion in 'Icewind Dale 2' started by Tal Rasha, May 19, 2006.

  1. Tal Rasha

    Tal Rasha Eye of Vecna

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    [​IMG] Recently, I have been thinking about to make a tactical mod for IWD2. I want to give some of the spellcasters better AIs and spells , and make them more challenging. But I won't give them nasty items or effects or abilities.
    So, before I really make a dicision to do the work, I'd like to make a poll. Is making a tactical mod for IWD2 necessary?

    Poll Information
    This poll contains 1 question(s). 22 user(s) have voted.
    You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

    Poll Results: Make a tactical mod for IWD2? (22 votes.)

    Make a tactical mod for IWD2? (Choose 1)
    * Yes, it's a great a idea! We want it! - 59% (13)
    * No, don't waste time on it. The battles in the game are well done enough. - 23% (5)
    * I don't know, but any mod is better than none. - 18% (4)
     
  2. Greystar Gems: 7/31
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    That's a great idea! Don't go out of your way to make it too hard (like some other *cough Weidu Tactics cough* mods) though. ;)
     
  3. kmonster Gems: 24/31
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    I fear that such a mod might destroy the roleplaying.

    The strength of IWD2 is the well balanced difficulty which allows going through the game unknowing without much reloading if you have some skill.
    Your mod might only make the players use cheesy tactics.

    It's unfair if you have to use preknowledge to win a battle.

    But your mod might add some replay value.
     
  4. Tal Rasha

    Tal Rasha Eye of Vecna

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    I think all mods are made for game replaying. No one will modded a game when he/she plays it for the first time. ;)
     
  5. Drew

    Drew Arrogant, contemptible, and obnoxious Adored Veteran

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    Smarter AI and stronger opponents wouldn't hurt. Frankly, I don't think you should have to play heart of fury or use cheesy tricks to reach level 20.
     
  6. Acrux Gems: 8/31
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    Plus, we all know the IWD2 can use all the life-extending support it can get!

    Who knows, maybe this will be the mod that lets IWD2 start competing with the BG games :p
     
  7. Ofelix

    Ofelix The world changes, we do not, what irony!

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    As if Icewind Dale needed to be more difficult. :shake:
     
  8. Shaitan

    Shaitan Always forgive your enemies; it annoys them so

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    Yeah lets see what your upcoming mod can do :p
     
  9. Tal Rasha

    Tal Rasha Eye of Vecna

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    Actually, I don't intend to make it too difficult as bg2's did. The Tactics Mod for bg2 broke the d&d rules, I think. I would like not to break the rule as possible as I can in my upcoming mod.
     
  10. Silverstar Gems: 31/31
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    Mm I am curious, and enthusiastic about your ideas that I forgive your bashing of beautiful Tactics mod. ;)
     
  11. Faraaz Gems: 26/31
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    @Tal Rasha: I think your idea is fantastic and I would DEFINITELY give it a go...provided, as you said...it was not a cheat-fest like the BG2 Tactics mod was...

    I would definitely like a final battle which was a bit more souped up instead of a mildly difficult battle...also, a fair few encounters in the game could have been made more difficult, such as the Crossroads battle after defeating the Guardian. Instead of lowly yuan-ti, making them just a bit higher in level and some decent AI would make the fight a LOT more interesting I reckon...

    Also...the Ice Temple section gets to be fairly boring as the grunts in the temple are really easy. Perhaps some different monsters?? Or better AI? Or higher level spawns??

    Oh and you have GOT to make the monsters give you more XP if they are souped up...make sure the characters reach lvl 20 in Normal mode, sort of thing...

    If you can make a mod which is even a BIT like what I've just outlined...you rock!! :thumb:
     
  12. Tal Rasha

    Tal Rasha Eye of Vecna

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    Well, I have decided to start the project. It will probablly take me 2 months to complete it, I reckon.
    Mm, maybe in this July, after the World Cup.
    Anyone of you can give me your advice. Perhaps your advice will be implemented in the mod. ;)
     
  13. Sydax Gems: 19/31
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    First time player here; I'm at the bridge after Targos, and as Ofelix said, this could be more difficult? Well, I'm having a very hard time with the orcs in this area, there are lots of them and the shamans cast spells like devil! One behind another, and I can't seem to disrupt their casting. Mayhaps if we can find some a bit better weapons (or at least more money to buy better weapons/armors at the begining), as for me, is already somehow difficult, which is OK for me right now, sometimes, the begining of these kind of games tend to be boring walks in the park.
     
  14. Mudde Gems: 9/31
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    @Sydax
    The game is difficult until your main spellcaster get the fireball spell. After that it gets a lot easier. With high-lvl spells you can end almost every fight in less than 5 rounds. With enough spellcasters it only takes 2 rounds and then maybe a single almost dead enemy remains.
    I don't think the lack of difficulty is a problem in the game since HOF-mode gives you a lot of hard fights if that's what your after.

    The AI isn't too stupid either: If I controlled the enemy and would meet a party like mine in combat I would probably, as the computer does - try to hit the little weak gnomish wizard that stands in front of the others, not knowing that the little gnome just happends to be a high-AC decoy.
    It takes a little time to notice that he is close to unhittable and thats time the enemy don't have since my party consists of 6 high-lvl spellcasters (4 of them almost pure). Within 2 rounds most of them are dead. Since I kill everyone along the way there is no one that can tell the others about the gnome.
     
  15. Faraaz Gems: 26/31
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    @Mudde: Yes...but a major problem with the IWD2 AI is that the enemies doggedly follow ONLY the first character they auto-acquire. This can be exploited to a great deal by a player who is aware of this (everyone really...)and it makes a few battles a complete joke.

    For instance...I cast invisibility on EVERYONE in my party except my useless high AC gnome in the Shaengarne Bridge battle, have him run through the area drawing all enemy fire after him, while I send my spellcasters through to Xuki, and then they pick everyone off one by one...atleast, thats what I did in my first HoF run...

    What I mean to say is, AI is alright, but it definitely needs improvement with the auto-acquiring of targets...
     
  16. Mudde Gems: 9/31
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    @Faraaz
    You're right! I seldom use that bug since I always let my decoy be in the front during the whole battles and keep my spellcasters in the back protected by the divine casters. In that way the enemies always have a reason to attack the decoy and not try to go through my dwarf and half-orc multiclassed divine casters just to try to hit the other arcane casters. But I also very seldom use invisibility spells other than for the sneaky missions and maybe to let a single targeted caster slip away.
     
  17. Faraaz Gems: 26/31
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    But see? You just proved my point...if I was playing PvP and you had your spellcasters in the back...I'd send my tanks STRAIGHT for them, and use MY spellcasters to disable YOUR tanks...

    And that sort of AI is what I want to see from the tactical mod Tal's making!! :D
     
  18. Mudde Gems: 9/31
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    How du you disable my tanks? Since they are almost full lvl cleric and druid and have maxed wis they get really high will and fortitude saves. They also have a lot of HP (dwarf and half-orc). That makes them able to stand in the way for everyone that notices that the gnome wizard is almost untouchable and start attacking my other casters. I know that one way to beat my decoy would be to throw some kind of spell that can pass the SR (of ~50 with holy avenger) and with save against fortitude. Since one of my 3 back row casters (bard11/sorcX) sing the luck song my decoy won't miss a will- or reflex save and my tanks are hard to hit with fort- and will saves. To reach my tanks they must make in through the inferno of all kinds of area attack spells around my decoy (6 spellcasters makes a lot of mess). A ring of freedom of movement and great saves and HP is a must.
     
  19. Faraaz Gems: 26/31
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    Greater Spell Focus Evocation + Cone of Coldx6?? Horrid Wiltingx5?? Its easy to do if you bump up the caster levels...which is what ANY tactics mod worth its salt does...

    Besides...that's just your decoy. I doubt EVERY single tank in your party is carrying a Cera Sumat...

    Greater Spell Focus:Enchantment + Mass Dominate? Easy as pie...
     
  20. Mudde Gems: 9/31
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    a good sorc is not impossible to save against:
    base DC: 10
    charisma of 25 (18 base + 7 from lvl-ups) (+7)
    spell lvl (+1-9)
    Greater Spell Focus (+4)
    This gives a maximum spell DC of 30.
    My tanks have saving throws from 26 caster lvls: fort: 15, will 15
    and from 4 fightertype levels: fort: 4, will 1
    from 20 con(18 for halforc): fort +5 (+4 for half orc)
    from will of 34 (dreadmaster with ring) or 30 (halforc with 2:nd ring): will +12 (+10)
    This gives saves of fort: 24 (23) and will: 28 (26).

    This is without bonuses from items and a bard song (which btw makes in impossible to hit a natural 1.)
    You won't hit them much with anything that can be saved with a fortitude or will save. They both have heal so they can take some punching.

    The decoy get so many first lvl bonuses and have a really high dex and evasion. This gives her even better will and reflex saves than the tanks. Horrid wilting might give him problems, but cone of cold is against reflex save and won't hit, even with GSF evo.
    The enemy sorc(s) needs to be fully buffed before combat to be able to withstand 6 casters!!! Even then they won't have time to throw 5 or 6 spells!

    So as a conclusion: You might be able to hurt my back-row casters, but they are in the back row and can do much in return. If you concentrate too much on the back row the other 3 have all the time they need to blast you away before you have come close enough to cast at the back-row casters. while doing that the back row have all important buffs up and can start their blasting as soon as you come in range of their spells!
    Hard to beat with tactics without having strange multiclassed characters!
     
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