POLL: Infidelity: Are you a cheater?

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I'm curious about people's views on relationships and infidelity. For all intents and purposes, it can be agreed that the standard definition of "cheating" is that you've had a physical relationship of any degree with someone while currently seeing someone else, all the while concealing the transgression from your current significant other. May not be the perfect definition, bout you all get the idea.

Please participate - and be honest. I realize we have some younger members here at SP, so if you haven't yet had a boyfriend/girlfriend, it's ok - you can still participate. I'd still like to know your thoughts.

[Afterthought Amendment: In question 4, "What Constitutes Cheating" list flirting, porno, prolonged boob staring, or whatever else you feel I missed in the "other" category, and please explain in a post. Thank you.]

[ June 16, 2003, 18:38: Message edited by: Death Rabbit ]

Poll Information
This poll contains 4 question(s). 34 user(s) have voted.
You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

Poll Results: Infidelity: Are you a cheater? (34 votes.)

Have you ever been unfaithful? (Choose 1)
* Yes. Pimpin' ain't easy! - 6% (2)
* Yes, and I'll never stop regretting it. - 12% (4)
* No. - 82% (28)

If no, would you ever cheat on someone, given the chance? (Choose 1)
* Never. There's no point in relationships if not to be faithful. - 59% (20)
* If I met my one true love while with someone else, then maybe. - 21% (7)
* If I met someone better, sure. (also known as "trading up") - 9% (3)
* If I was really horny / lonely / drunk, etc., you bet! Tail is tail. - 12% (4)

In your opinion, is cheating wrong? (Choose 1)
* Absolutely. Cheaters are immoral, selfish scum. - 65% (22)
* Yes, but if they don't find out, it's not cheating. - 3% (1)
* No. Humans aren't meant to be monogomous. - 3% (1)
* It depends on the situation (explain this one!) - 29% (10)

What constitutes cheating? (Choose 6)
* Spending time with someone else, without your significant other's presence, approval or knowledge. - 24% (8)
* Kissing or otherwise physical affection with someone else. - 85% (29)
* Loveletters, phone calls, e-mail or other regular correspondance. - 71% (24)
* Sex (yes, oral sex counts). But just once, and "it didn't mean anything!!" - 91% (31)
* Sex, often and with several partners. - 88% (30)
* Other (explain) - 12% (4)

 

When I was single, I cheated on girlfriend's all the time. It was fun. Now that I'm married, I wouldn't even come close.

As for what constitutes cheating, well, sex, obviously, and LOVE letters, notes, phone calls, e-mails, and that sort of thing, that's cheating, IMHO.

Kissing certainly is. The tenor of the time you spend with someone is also important. I have a few female friends that I'll have lunch with, but I don't consider that cheating. If I were going out of my way to have my wife not find out, though, that would be cheating, IMHO.

 

I've never cheated, and I probably never will. I hate it. I have helped other people cheat though (one without knowing so, the other I loved so much, I couldn't help myself)

There can be circumstances. For example when someone is in a relationship they want out of, but can't, for some reason. As for what defines cheating, that depends on what kind of agreements you've made together. Personally, I feel that all affection in the shape of love or lust is cheating. Especially the love affection. I'd be more upset over a loveletter to someone else than kissing some random guy, because it has much more meaning to it.

 

Which is an opinion that I would share.

Where the disagreement comes is your next statement:

I cannot fathom that. Perhaps it's the traditionalist in me coming through, but I've always believed that whenever you are with one woman (I use the feminine term here, as I'm male, but it's interchangable), that means you are with one woman. Cheating is something that simply doesn't enter the equation. I won't cheat on anyone that I'm actively seeing (and if she's not enough for you, why are you with her anyway?)

As far as what defines cheating, sex is the only definite one in that list. Cultural significance enters into that, as some European cultures kiss as a form of greeting. I guess it's the emotion that such an action carries with it. Passionate kissing would, for example, but a friendly greeting would not.

Love letters would fall into the "cheating" category, but correspondence may or may not, depending on the nature of that correspondence.

Flirting is the one that I'm not sure about (which, coincidently, wasn't in your poll but should have been). Is it okay to flirt with someone when you're in a relationship with someone else?

 

Dammit! Flirting! I knew I forgot something. Thanks Rastor.

To answer your question: it depends on what you consider to be flirting, the feeling behind it, and ... most important of all ... what your mate considers to be flirting. Some people consider playfully joking with a long-time opposite-sex friend to be flirting, while others don't. Some consider a simple "hi" to equate to, "what, so you wanna bang her now?"

Trust + Length of Relationship + Seriousness of Relationship x insecurity = whether or not you're flirting

I think...

[ June 16, 2003, 18:54: Message edited by: Death Rabbit ]

 

If you're not married, in my opinion, it's not cheating. There is no point to monogamy outside of marriage - either the person is the one person you intend to devote your life to caring for, in which case you marry them and stay faithful, or else they aren't, in which case you should just have fun and not limit yourselves. If you aren't sure yet, then leave your options open and both of you should keep seeing other people. (Although, on an unrelated note, if you aren't sure right away then I can tell you right now, he's NOT the one! When you find your soulmate, you know right away, like being struck by lightning). The one time I did agree to exclusivity before marriage, with a previous fiance (not the one I married), I ended up fooling around anyway, which I do feel guilty about because it hurt him so much. On the other hand, it ended that relationship, which was good news all round.

Nothing could make me cheat on my husband - even if I was ever interested in taking another lover, which seems very unlikely, I value the trust and honesty in our life together to ever jeopardise that in any way. And I'm not just saying that in case he reads this thread.

Edit: since you added a question about whether things like "prolonged boob staring" are cheating, here's a thought. Just because something is not, technically, cheating, does not mean it's not disrespectful and rude. Even if your relationship is 100% open and you're both sleeping with other people, you do *not* stare lasciviously at other people, make passes at other people, or announce your availability to other people when you are with your date. It may not be cheating, but it's certainly boorish.

 

Sprite, marriage isn't the sign that I want to devote my life to someone, or at least not to me. Every single woman I've loved, I wanted to spend eternity with. Does that mean we have to get married? No. Does it make how I feel any less? No.

Just because you aren't married, doesn't mean the other wouldn't give anything for you, and certainly isn't an excuse for cheating.

Just my 2 cents

 

Once you have given your word it's over. There's no point being in a relationship if one doesn't play fair.

Of course girlfriend is not wife and you change girlfriends from time to time, but 'change' is the clue word that goes with 'previously' when it comes to things. If you have a girlfriend, meet a girl at a party and leave your girlfriend the next day to start a new relationship, then you're not cheating. Whatever it is, it's not cheating. If you meet the girl and *decide* to tell your girlfriend it's over the next day, after you sleep with the girl from the party, then it's cheating. In short: everything that is serious and implies some sort of love or sex involved.

Well, and I selected never. I've never been a puritan, but once both persons know they're not *just friends*, jokes are over - despite my reputation for flirting, heh.

 

@ Sprite.

Other than that, I've cheated on my significant other many times. I'm not exactly sure why. It just seemed like the thing to do, at the time.

Ambi.

Dextrous.

 

I believe humans are not meant to be monogamous.
Always being with the same person will eventually get boring, be it after a day or twenty years. Now, there's different situations:

If you haven't "build" anything with your partner (kids, house, business...) then I think cheating is wrong, if you find better, take it and leave the other behind. Keeping the two of them will only be a source of headache (unless you're a horny pig, then something else might ache). It's not pretty, but it's the most honest thing to do (honest toward both your partner and yourself).

If you have kids, a common house and a grocery store you run together, then when you and your partner get bored (that is when you're close friends, but love/sex has become routine), cheating should be accepted as natural and necessary by both, rules are to be set (not at home, no making kids with the other one....), and life must go on, natural instincts and hormones cannot be ignored because of outdated social taboos or religious rules. Don't waste all you have accomplished with your first partner, especially if there are children involved, but don't live in a world of frustration and regret either.

 

To me, if you find someone and you love them and you truly feel that you want to spend the rest of you life with them.... Don't cheat. Besides the fact that I can't be aroused by someone I don't love, it cuts at the very core of the trust that you're building up, and if you don't have trust you can't have love. Also, if you're known for getting into non-committing relationships and then cheating, your overall trustworthiness is questioned, and that's really not something you want to have to live with or explain to people.
"Yeah, I know I cheated on him, but I swear I won't do it to you ."
As for what constitues cheating, again, anything physically sexual from kissing to sex itself and anything where you know in your heart that you are making yourself out to be unattached. So for me, talking to other guys online when I'm in a relationship in a way that isn't strictly friendship, that's cheating. But that's just me.

[ June 17, 2003, 02:13: Message edited by: Dragon's Jewel ]

 

I just dont see the point of cheating? I am with chev here. If you want to sleep with somenoe else you dont love the one you share a relationship with. If you dont love her, why be with her? Break it up and do whatever your want. Doing what Sprite have done is incredibly selfish, dishonest and out right mean. If you want to screw guy X, fine but dump your boyfriend first unless you for some reason have decided that it is ok to sleep with others. It is ok to have many partners, to do what you want, to experience as much as you can. But it is very wrong to do it while telling someone else that you are with them and only them. And if you are in a relationship that is what is expected unless you have told otherwise.

If you dont feel like a person that can stand a monogamous relationship, fine, just dont let anyone believe that you do.

I might just be a romantic fool but that is what I think.

 

I'm with Jaoc and chev as well. If you want to stray, you owe it to the person you're with to break it off, because obviously you're not as into them as they deserve. Monogomy doesn't have to only apply to marriage, and shouldn't IMHO. The way I am, if I can't trust a girl to be honest with me in the beginning of the relationship, then we have no future. I'll never be able to trust her down the road, and it'll never work. I think cheating is incredibly selfish and does nothing but devastate - or at the very least slap in the face - the person who trusts you. What is a relationship if not trust?

On that note, @ Lord Keldin Depaara

I about soiled myself when I saw this. You? Are you serious? You're the LAST person here I would expect to see this from (except for maybe Mat or Quickie). Could you elaborate a bit? I'm not really calling you out for debate or anything, I'm just really surprised. From what I know about you, you don't seem the type. At all.

 

Hmm... I see people talking about hormones, drives, necessities - all those as natural and not to be restrained...

But just in what does a human differ from an animal? We're not meant to be driven by biology and hold our desires above everything else. If this happens, we will devolve.

Not easy? Of course it's not. Who said that life is to be easy?

From philosophical point of view, we're parts of nature and equally important ones. None of us has the right to treat his own needs and desires as more important than those of other people even if we're primarily meant to take care of ourselves. Cheating is either putting oneself on a higher level than the person one's cheating on and all ties with him or stooping down to the level of the slave of one's whims. Don't be fooled by 'either', those two are actually very close to each other.

From a more individual point of view, it's a matter of honesty, trust, honour, whatever you hold dear in this place. Where's the trust when you desert those who confide in you, where is your honesty when you can't be believed and where's your honour when you derelict your duties and obligations and your word is dust in the wind?

Another thing is, if you can't maintain this relationship, how are you supposed to be able to hold the next one or each of them for that matter?

 

DeathRabbit, I'm sorry about your shorts. I'll send you some new BVDs soon

Now, when I say cheat in reference to myself, I am not referring to sex. I remained abstinent before my marriage. However, in my youth I had some relationships wherein my girlfriend really ripped out my soul and stomped on my heart. As a result, I developed a rather unhealthy attitude -- I decided that I would not be hurt like that again -- in fact, if anyone was going to be hurt, it was going to be her.

The sad fact is, I am fairly skilled with the language (hence my present career) and I never got caught! But at one point, I had 3 girls, each thinking that she was the only one. This was incredibly bad and immature, and I regret it now -- someone could have been really hurt. At the time, though, I really didn't care.

I got backstabbed myself a few times and became even more bitter -- I was well on my way to becoming a misogynist until I met my future wife. We were really good friends, and when we started dating, I decided I did care about her feelings and I didn'twant to hurt her. Plus, I didn't want to be with anyone but her. So I smartened up.

Those of you who do not believe in the Devil have not gone through what I went through after getting engaged. I am not a handsome man, but as soon as I made the commitment to not be a cheating bastard anymore, THREE women threw themselves at me -- I kid you not. I could have been the worst dog alive, but I stuck it out, and I'm glad I did -- no one stacks up to my wife, at least for me.

Is that sufficient elaboration, Rabbit?

 

Great topic, Death Rabbit. I don't disagree with the other comments on this topic. But are there instances when cheating can be justified? For instance, what about arranged marriages? Really, I once had a friend whose family picked out his wife for him and put her on a plane and sent her here. Just like that, he married her. He and his family were of a different culture. When I asked him about how he felt about it, he said that love was not the issue and that it could be found in "other places."

So I guess my question is then: Is cheating really against the nature of love? Or does it go against a relationship based on commitment and honor? Of course the ideal is a relationship that has both. But what about situations where both are not possible, or are they completely inseparable?

 

The strange thing about arranged marriages is that they only have a 2% divorce rate, whereas 'normal' marriages have a 56% one. This seems to imply, to me anyways, that cheating is less common in arranged marriages than otherwise.

It seems that most of the people here are on the same wavelength. If you aren't happy with the person you're with, then why are you with her?

 

@ LKD

Sufficient indeed. And send boxers please...my boys need to swing.

@ Chandos

Thanks, glad you like it.

To answer your question, IMO no, cheating isn't ever "justified," per se. In his case, regardless of how he feels about the woman, he has made a commitment and it would seem his culture demands to honor the selection by his family. It would appear to be a loveless marriage if he's buffin' the wood elsewhere. It would seem the commitment here is to his family moreso than the woman. But he did also commit himself to that woman, whether he likes it or not. Whether or not it violates the trust of the woman he married is another story. If she gives him permission, then she isn't necessarily being wronged, her trust isn't being violated and therefore he's not cheating IMO.

Your second question seems to me to be 2 totally different ideas. To answer it, I say yes. I've always believed the nature of love to be putting someone else's happiness above your own. If you're cheating, you're putting your own happiness, albeit a temporary and meaningless happiness, above that of someone who loves and trusts you to be true. Doing that to someone who loves you can't really be justified, IMO because it's a very selfish act. Thoughts?

 

Rastor -- Are those US figures or are they internationl figures? Most marriages in the US are not arranged, so I would guess that you might be using international sources.

I'm not so sure that cheating is the main cause of divorce. There are financial causes, or spousal abuse and other factors that add to the demise of some marriages and non-marriage relationships as well. Also, some marriages survive cheating. The Clintons are an excellent example of a marriage that sustains itself for other reasons.

Also, I'm not defending infidelty, far from it, I am pointing out that no one can judge a relationship based on an ideal that he/she has created for themselves, or that society has, but only by seeing what is inside the relationship that one is attempting to pass judgement on.

[ June 18, 2003, 05:48: Message edited by: Chandos the Red ]