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POLL: How would you handle +x/+y weapons?

Discussion in 'BG2: Shadows of Amn (Classic)' started by CamDawg, Nov 11, 2003.

  1. CamDawg

    CamDawg The gaze of the Wolf reaches into our soul Veteran

    Jun 10, 2003
    Likes Received:
    I noticed this while cruising through Near Infinity the other day: the Hammer +1/+4 vs Giantkin is coded as a +4 weapon, meaning it should hit demi-liches. At first I thought this was clearly a bug, since Daystar is only considered a +2 weapon (despite being +4 vs evil) when determining what it can hit. After going through some other item files I discovered the enchantment level--what actually determines what a weapon can hit--is applied inconsistently by Bioware (this is with ToB installed and Baldurdashed).

    Hammer +1/+4 vs Giantkin is +4
    Daystar +2/+4 vs Evil is +2
    Bone Club +2/+3 vs Undead is +3
    Root of the Problem +1/+3 vs unnatural is +3
    Bastard Sword +1/+3 vs shapeshifters is +1
    Equalizer (+0 to +3 depending on alignment of target) is +3

    Due to limitations in the Infinity Engine, you can alter effects, damage, THAC0, etc. based on the target, but the enchantment level is fixed and applies to every target. For example, against Kangaxx's demi-lich form, Daystar may add +4 THAC0 since he's evil but it will never hit him as he requires a +4 weapon to be hit.

    As a PnP DM, this is easy to address. However, given the limitations of IE, what, if anything, would you change?

    Poll Information
    This poll contains 1 question(s). 20 user(s) have voted.
    You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

    Poll Results: How would you handle +x/+y weapons? (20 votes.)

    In general, how would you treat +x/+y weapons in BG2? (Choose 1)
    * Use the maximum (+1/+4 Hammer is +4) - 45% (9)
    * Use the minimum (+1/+4 Hammer is +1) - 40% (8)
    * Leave unchanged - 5% (1)
    * Other (please explain in a post) - 10% (2)
  2. Splunge

    Splunge Bhaal’s financial advisor Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Jun 7, 2003
    Likes Received:
    I would think it should be the maximum, since an otherwise small improvement in the weapon hardly seems worthwhile, given that it only applies in limited circumstances.
  3. Mystra's Chosen Gems: 22/31
    Latest gem: Sphene

    Sep 28, 2002
    Likes Received:
    I would go for using the maximum because although the weapon could hit other creatures than the one(s) it advertises, it would still not have the THAC0 bonus or the Damage bonus.

    If it used the minimum, then all these weapons would be useless.
  4. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

    May 15, 2003
    Likes Received:
    Good post - I never realized that statistic was true, although I did know from experience that Daystar didn't hit the Demi-Lich.

    I suppose that for the weapon to be useful, it has to go with the maximum - although clearly that isn't the case with Daystar. It's too bad that it can't change based on the creature you're attacking - clearly the Giantkin hammer isn't supposed to be able to hit Kaaganx, but that's what we have now...
  5. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

    Dec 13, 2001
    Likes Received:
    I voted "other." I think you probably need to look at who the weapon is supposed to hit, when you obtain it, etc. For example, that giantkin hammer should only be +1. You get it early, it's self-described as being useful against giants and the like (who don't need +4 to hit them), and it will be discarded long before you should be facing Kangaxx or other high powered foes.

    Daystar should be +4. It is guarded by a lich and is an obvious lich killer, perfect for Kangaxx. Either way, it's going to hit vampires, so the only real issue is whether demi-liches should be hit by it: a resounding "yes" to that.

    Equalizer is right on. It's described as being +3 for purposes of judging what it can hit.

    Bone Club should be +2. It's use is particular to undead and I don't think there's a difference there (a +3 weapon won't hit any undead that a +2 weapon can't touch). IIRC, there are a couple of non-undead that can be scratched by +3 but not +2, so it should be +2

    Root of the Problem should probably be +3 given that it's a sort of quest reward for druids and implies a relatively powerful item. I could be persuaded either way though.

    Bastard Sword +1/+3 vs shapeshifters should probably be +1 given how early you get it. I don't remember, though, if greater werewolves and their kin require better than +1. If so, it should be +3 as its stated purpose is to deal with such beings.
  6. Duke Eltan Gems: 14/31
    Latest gem: Chrysoberyl

    May 25, 2003
    Likes Received:
    I voted minimum.
    Because of the obvious reason that, take the Giantkin hammer for example, is made as it is. +1, +4 VS GIANT KIN. Therefor it will hit as +1 as long as it isn´t any Giantkin you´re hitting.

    Say you made a "Knife of Fire, + Ice vs Giants". Do you think it would do icedamage all the time? No, cuz then it would be called "Knife of Fire and Ice".
  7. Ahrontil Gems: 8/31
    Latest gem: Skydrop

    May 26, 2003
    Likes Received:

    Being misled by the item's descriptions (albiet accidently through engine limitations) and finding out their true abilities by experimentation and accident is all part of the game. Think about what happened to poor Edwin.

    A patch for the game would need to remove the current engine limitations and fix the problem properly, any other type of fix would not be worth while.
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