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POLL: Best implementation of evil PC in a RPG

Discussion in 'Playground' started by Killjoy, Sep 16, 2006.

  1. Killjoy Gems: 8/31
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    Vote for the RPG that had the best, most interesting, and most fun implementation of playing an evil character.

    Poll Information
    This poll contains 1 question(s). 39 user(s) have voted.
    You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

    Poll Results: Best implementation of evil PC in a RPG (39 votes.)

    Best implementation of evil PC in a RPG (Choose 1)
    * Fallout 1 - 3% (1)
    * Fallout 2 - 26% (10)
    * Baldur's Gate & TOTSC - 0% (0)
    * Planescape Torment - 21% (8)
    * Icewind Dale 1 & HOW / TOTL - 0% (0)
    * Baldur's Gate II & TOB - 10% (4)
    * Arcanum - 13% (5)
    * Elder Scrolls III Morrowind - 13% (5)
    * Neverwinter Nights - 0% (0)
    * Star Wars KOTOR 1 (BioWare) - 5% (2)
    * Star Wars KOTOR 2 (Obsidian) - 0% (0)
    * Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion - 3% (1)
    * Other (post which one) - 8% (3)
     
  2. Gnarfflinger

    Gnarfflinger Wiseguy in Training

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    Morrowind. Sure the emperor has given yoyu a job to do, but you're still looking out for numero uno!
     
  3. Bahir the Red Gems: 18/31
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    I say Fallout 2, but I am a little biased since it's the game I am playing at the moment.

    You got many badass lines that could be concidered evil, many options to choose from in terms of almost everything. You can kill people in the public and often get away with it, you can work for the mob and all kinds of other people and stuff.

    The thing about Fallout 2 though, is that much of the evil vs good options you can take, is either evil or good depending on your view. For example, if you concider mutants a threat to humanity (given the previous record of stuff they have done), then killing the mutes in Broken Hills, and destroying the powerplant in Gecko might be concidered a good thing. If you like mutes, it would be the other way around.


    Ps:T is kinda good too, but I think it has too few evil options at many times during the game.
     
  4. Erod Gems: 14/31
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    Out of those I would say Fallout 2. It is best in the choices that you can do. With Bioware games the evil choice is usually "I'm evil, give me your money or die!", which is very stupid.
     
  5. Felinoid

    Felinoid Who did the what now? ★ SPS Account Holder

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    Dagoth Ur talking to you as if
    as you descend through his citadel, clearing out the minor Dagoths...*shudders* That just f***ing creeped me out. And the way he screams "What are you doing?!" at you when you're
    is just too real. He's lost his mind in the power, and it really shows.

    Then again, of these choices I've only finished the BG series and Morrowind (IWD 1 is on hold as I enjoy ES 3), so I may be missing some really good villains.

    EDIT: Er, wait. PC, not NPC. :doh: Well, in that case I'd still pick Morrowind out of the games I've played. Hell, the game even has a backpath to beat the main quest so that you can just go around killing everyone (including a god, but excluding one character who you need for a specific task, but can kill afterwards) and still beat the nuts off of the aforementioned Dagoth Ur.

    Not to mention the transformation possibilities, like becoming a denizen of the night or a beast. The expansions don't have such backpaths, but then you don't really need to 'fix' anything like you do the Blight storms on Vvardenfell. Everything you need to fix arrives during the course of the main quests. Though I suppose the werewolf path in Bloodmoon might count as an evil way, I don't really see it as such; rather simply different.

    But the real plus to playing a villain is that not everybody in here are nice people. House Telvanni, for example, are complete asses most of the time (one will even attack you for doing quests for her), and all three Great Houses have vendettas against each other. Not to mention the guild clashes. There's a lot of killing and stealing and manipulation that you can do, and a fair amount of it isn't legal. There are a lot of 'mean' quests which have a 'nice' out, but still allow you to do it the mean way, and most of the 'nice' quests allow you to do it a 'mean' way too, though that generally just involves taking stuff and/or killing.

    The only qualm I have with it is that you're not allowed to accept Dagoth Ur's offers of friendship (given before the confrontation, and also during as he continues to attack you :rolleyes: ), or even just plain take over and rule the world yourself. You can climb the ladder to the top with some pretty evil people, but being the Big Bad of the entire game yourself just isn't possible. Then again, I imagine that's why they provided a Construction Set with the game, to make whatever you can dream up possible. To make it so easily modded...damn, that's a nice gesture.

    [ September 16, 2006, 12:27: Message edited by: Felinoid ]
     
  6. kuemper Gems: 31/31
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    Morrowind because you can be the asshat and the game doesn't lock up.
     
  7. Enagonios Gems: 31/31
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    stupid browser wont let me see the choices or vote :bang:

    but my vote will go to PS:T (it IS there isn't it? :p ).
     
  8. Goli Ironhead Gems: 16/31
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    Not Baldur's Gate, at least. Athought good, the evil side was too much of "I'll kill all the children and slash open your carotid arterys because I feel like it, even thought I could get a HUGE reward from helping you!" -underaccomplishing madman.

    So I'll say Fallout 2.
     
  9. Slowpoke Gems: 2/31
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    The Fallout series and Arcanum (yes, it too had the "this is what happened next" thing). The only games where being evil actually has consequences on the aftermath.
     
  10. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    [​IMG] Enagonios, enable pop-ups for SP.
     
  11. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Definitely not one of the Bioware games. Their idea of being evil just seems too contrived for me. Plus you get thoroughly shafted for being evil in the BG-series.

    Fallout 2 is much better, if only for the immensely entertaining answers you can choose from in conversations.

    But Morrowind takes the cake for me. Mostly because it is not by itself preoccupied with being evil or not. I can just decide I don't like the person giving me the quest and then not do their quest, but say I did and I still get rewarded. Rapture. Is this evil or not? It totally depends on your point of view, as Felinoid pointed out earlier, and that makes it by default a good system for me.

    Of course, if you want to go postal and be evil the way D&D pictures chaotic evil persons to be, enchant something with Vivec's soul (yes, you'll have to kill him first, but you're evil anyway, right?) with something like:
    100% Weakness to Fire
    100 pts of Fire Damage in 50 ft on Target
    And go totally ape**** crazy in one of the large towns.
     
  12. Ziad

    Ziad I speak in rebuses Veteran

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    It was a close call between Planescape and Arcanum, but I think being evil in Arcanum has a more obvious effect on the game.
     
  13. The Magpie

    The Magpie Balance, in all things Veteran

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    I voted PS:T. Hell, it's practically the default response when it comes to RPing. Of the other IE games, BG is actually pretty solid for evil characters and much better than BG2. My NE Thief still rates as probably my favourite game run-through. BG2 loses major points for evil simulation by the act of simply failing to include enough evil aligned characters OOTB to make a full party! The option to turn good characters evil would have been a lovely addition (as you can turn Viconia and Anomen to "good-er" alignments), but they dropped the ball. Turning Imoen evil would've been both feasible and fantastic for evil RP, but it didn't happen. :grr:

    In IWD 1 & 2, the issue of playing evil isn't really as big as in BG 1 or 2, although the reputation system exists it isn't as transparent so most people pootle along in ignorance of it. This does give scope to do evil properly, although it also doesn't feel like it really matters, so minus points.

    Now, KotOR 1 is from the BG1&2 school of moral definition. The vast majority of "evil" responses follow the dumb psychopath template, which leaves a hell of a lot to be desired. Whatever happened to the intelligent manipulative Sith, like Palapatine? Well, I found that playing good-neutral (i.e. good apart from the Genoharadan) until after the Leviathan and then turning is a much more satisfying way of doing the evil thing. It's also more authentically Star Wars.

    KotOR II improved on matters, with Kreia's subtle influence on the Exile being much more satisfying, but it couldn't quite escape the psychosis. I suppose, however, that it's difficult to get those subtleties into a computer game where the loss of digital life doesn't (and can't) carry the impact of real life consequences, so mass slaughter will always be the option for those looking to abuse the evil path for ultimate power, just as those who fastidiously click every option that gives LS points abuse the system for the sake of Force Enlightment and the killer stat bonuses.

    The general problem BioWare games have is the way that they equate the good path as carrying the most financial, XP and other rewards. Surely, to be truly behaving as good you should be forsaking such things? Shouldn't evil bring those uber weapons and GP? Shouldn't it be a matter of doing good in spite of the rewards or penalties, not because of seeking material gain? This is where I feel BG 1 & 2 lose out (as does KotOR 1, and to a lesser extent 2). The "hero discount" is, imho, abonimable and someone should make a patch that completely removes the REP dependence of store prices. Too many powergamers choose LG without ever once acting it, or having a clue how to. I have no problem with low REP netting you encounters with the local constabulary, however. Hell, that was one of the most entertaining parts of my NE thief's game. More annoying perhaps is the meshing of Good and Neutral so as to be virtually indistinguishable. But that's always gonna be tricky to get right, so I'm not going to hold it against them too much.

    PS:T was built on the premise of rewarding RPing, which is why it stands out. Having not played Morrowind I can't comment, but other non-DnD cRPGs do have the advantage of not having to work with the alignment system, leaving them more open to the notion of moral freedom. DnD has a problem, in a way, as although the alignment system is a useful guide, it has become far too important for character's design. You cannot have both a good character and have them conform too closely to the alignment system, yet that is what the system compels. It's handy to have for newbies to get a shorthand idea of how to behave, but it's ultimately shallow as hell and shouldn't be taken as seriously as it is. Having classes tied to specific alignments (or groups thereof) is a part of the problem. It propagates stereotypes. That's likely why Morrowind is getting so many votes - any DnD based game has the insubtlety of the alignment system to overcome first.

    My :2c:
     
  14. Colthrun

    Colthrun Walk first in the forest and last in the bog Veteran

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    Arcanum is another game where you can play good, evil, and chaotic characters in a credible (and intelligent) manner. It is also the only CRPG I've seen so far where thieves must really be careful when skulking or opening locks when there are NPCs around.

    I remember a couple of quests from the very beginning which can be solved following both good and evil paths.

    S
    P
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    L
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    R
    S


    One of my favourite quests involve Shrowded Hills' bank. You can help stopping a robbery going on, and become the town hero. Then, you can plan to rob the same bank with an NPC. You can denounce said NPC to the sheriff and have him incarcerated. After all that, you can rob the bank yourself. :evil:
     
  15. Clixby Gems: 13/31
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    Fallout 2 and Arcanum. It's easier to be evil in the alter parts of the BG series (later parts of SoA and ToB), but it's ultimately more rewarding to take the goody two-shoes role throughout the majority.

    Fallout 2 definitely has some of my favorite lines for the PC out of all of them, though.
     
  16. The Irreligious Paladin Gems: 7/31
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    The only game on the list I haven't played is PS:T, which seems to be a popular answer. The fact that the average mindset in the Fallout 1 and 2 worlds are very selfish and opportunistic, I have to vote Fallout 2. A game where you can wipe a town off the map and still kill evil NPC's to take over the whole post-apocalyptic California coastline. That's god old fashion Thunderdome action right there. Morrowind is good for baddies too, but the place itself is so neutral, it's hard to say that you are being truly evil unless you become vamped. Fallout 2 world is the most evil world, therefore the most fun and opportunity ridden for a PC to get his evil on. You are what your world makes you afterall. :evil:
     
  17. The Shaman Gems: 28/31
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    I think of the games which I played (I do tend to favor good alignments though) and that are mentioned here Fallout 2 seems to be most rewarding in terms of doing what you want and getting some good responses. Outside them... I would perhaps mention the Masquerade games. The first one - Redemption - didn't have that many places where you could directly impact the plot, but those felt good enough whichever way you choose. As for the second... Heh, Bloodlines is much easier to play as a goodie than the average Masquerade pnp game, but you can still be as evil as you want - and it will feel... satisfying.
     
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