1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

POLL: Best exotic weapon

Discussion in 'Neverwinter Nights (Classic)' started by Ragusa, Jan 16, 2004.

  1. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2000
    Messages:
    10,140
    Media:
    63
    Likes Received:
    250
    Gender:
    Male
    My favourite is the dwarven waraxe ... for a fighter weapons master ... to have 16-20 crit range with a keen weapon, and x4 damage truly makes it about the coolest one handed weapon in the game ... of course, the scythe is more powerful still, but it isn't half as cool, my opinion ... and it is two handed too, so you can't use a shield.

    Poll Information
    This poll contains 1 question(s). 34 user(s) have voted.
    You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

    Poll Results: Best exotic weapon (34 votes.)

    Best exotic weapon (Choose 1)
    * Katana - 21% (7)
    * Bastard Sword - 24% (8)
    * Dwarven Waraxe - 12% (4)
    * Scythe - 15% (5)
    * Dire Flail - 0% (0)
    * Double Sword - 18% (6)
    * Orcish Double Axe - 3% (1)
    * Whip - 3% (1)
    * Kama Kukri - 6% (2)
    * Shuriken - 0% (0)
     
  2. Gothmog

    Gothmog Man, a curious beast indeed! ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2002
    Messages:
    1,829
    Likes Received:
    6
    My favourite: Scythe :)

    Isnt it amazing none voted for any of the double weapons?
    I think they're the clumsiest weapons of them all. Hard to fight, and no real room for improving your skill. Hah, i'm not speaking of NwN anymore :heh:
     
  3. Sarevok• Gems: 23/31
    Latest gem: Black Opal


    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2003
    Messages:
    1,666
    Likes Received:
    0
    Favourite for me is the Katana ;z
     
  4. Oso Gems: 1/31
    Latest gem: Turquoise


    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    I found a fairly decent two bladed sword when playing in HoU called Anduvir
    got it when I killed some drow blocking me outside the beholder caves (I think)
     
  5. Shadow Druid Gems: 5/31
    Latest gem: Andar


    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2003
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    0
    Definately the whip....for obvious reasons ;)
     
  6. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2000
    Messages:
    10,140
    Media:
    63
    Likes Received:
    250
    Gender:
    Male
    Hmm, IMO katanas are just for the flair, compared to the bastard sword - what benefit except looks do they offer?
    • B'Sword: 1d10 damage, slashing, crit range 19-20, x2 crit damage, 10 Ib weight
    • Katana: 1d10 damage, slashing, crit range 19-20, x2 crit damage, 10 Ib weight
    Except for the animation, both weapons are technically identical, and, of course, the Katana uses up two squares less in the inventory :D
     
  7. Register Gems: 29/31
    Latest gem: Glittering Beljuril


    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2001
    Messages:
    3,146
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Two-Bladed Sword, no doubt. Nothing is cooler than a ambidextrous guy kicking the arse of several enemies at once with one sword.
     
  8. Laches Gems: 19/31
    Latest gem: Aquamarine


    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2001
    Messages:
    1,128
    Likes Received:
    0
    @ Ragusa - from what I've read, the axe is actually going to be more powerful in the hands of a weaponmaster than a scythe. What people miss is that due to the increase critical multiplier weapons with higher critical multiplier lose a bit of the advantage that they had.

    For example, the axe has a x2 critical and the scythe has x4. This means that there is a x2 difference. Take 10 x2 for 20. Compare 8 x 4 for 32. So, a 12 point damage difference on a critical. When you increase the axe to x3 and the scythe to x5 it is no longer a x2 difference it is now a x1.5 difference. The scythe actually loses some of its advantage. 10x3 is 30 and 8 x5 is 40 so there is now a 10 point difference and not a 12. And that is with a max hit. Consider an average of 5x3 for 15 and 4x5 for 20 and there is, on average, a 5 point difference.

    The other factor is of course the wider critical range of the axe. There is of course the obvious difference in that if there were 20 swings the axe would hit for, on average, a 1 point higher damage for 18 hits, a 5 point lower hit, on average, on one hit, and an 11 point higher hit, on average, for the final hit. So, damage over time, the axe is 24 points ahead over 20 swings (admittedly rigged - you could theoretically swing 20 times and get 20 max crits).

    But there is one other factor - apparently the rolling system in the game doesn't truly reflect randomness - according to the info on the bioware forums. So, by increasing your critical range from, say, 17-20 to 15-20 results in more than just 2 more critical hits per 20 swings on average.

    Since the axe hits with a wider range, this actually is a bigger advantage than the numbers might intially indicate.

    As for me, I like kukris dual-wielded.
     
  9. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2000
    Messages:
    10,140
    Media:
    63
    Likes Received:
    250
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm not persuaded. While I still very much prefer the dwarven waraxe and very much welcome everything you say to scoff the silly scythe I have to speak out in defense of the scythe, just for the sake of argument ;)
    • scythe:
      2d4 damage, crit on 20, x4 crit damage, two-handed
    • dwarven waraxe:
      1d10 damage, crit on 20, x3 crit damage, one-handed
    Weapon damage: The scythe is a two-handed weapon, additionally adding another 1/2 str-bonus to damage. That's a point that compensates for the lower 2d4 damage - and the difference becomes more obvious the stronger your char is. With a str-18 char the str-damage modifier would be 4+2, on a str-30 char (note, not uncommon in NWN HotU) it would be 10+5 while a dwarven waraxe would only get +10.

    Crit ranges: In a numerical analysis the scythe's and dwarven waraxe's crit ranges would be equal - both have a crit at 20 - and in the end it would be 17-20 on a lvl-5 weaponsmaster* with a keen weapon and the improved critical feat (-1 each) - for both scythe and dwarven waraxe.

    Crit damage: And as for crit damage, to make an example I'll take a str-18 fighter wielding a non-magical weapon on a normal optimum hit (maxed rolls) compared to a crit:
    • scythe:
      normal hit - 2d4 + 6 (str-bonus: 4 + 2) = 14 damage
      crit: x4 damage multiplier = 56 damage
      weapons master*: x5 damage multiplier = 70 damage
    • dwarven waraxe:
      normal hit - 1d10 + 4 (str-bonus: 4) = 14 damage
      crit: x3 damage multiplier = 42 damage
      wapons master*: x4 damage multiplier = 56 damage
    To underline the advantage of two-handed weapons and their extra str-bonus let's let have our hypothetical weaponsmaster have str-30 instead of str-18: Scythe ends with 115 (2d4 + 15 x5), while a dwarven waraxe ends up with 80 (1d10 + 10 x 4).

    Conclusion: In fact, due to the two-handed str-bonus (which is fixed, not rolled), the scythe is clearly better off than the waraxe, but then there is the AC issue - so if I wanted go for total offensive punch I'd save myself the exotic weapons feat and go straight for a greataxe with a whopping 1d12 damage at the same crit range, and two-handed str-bonus (ending up with one free feat and still 108 damage in the str-30 example). That is IMO why the scythe, though nice on paper, is unattractive, both from a powergaming perspective and in looks.

    The true advantage of the dwarven waraxe is that you can wield it with a shield, or when you're crazy, dualwield it.

    Notes in the margin: I'm not persuaded that the rolls make the difference. IMO Feats, as a "hardware solution", do. Rolls - more or less randomly - advantage and disadvantage all sides equally. An increased crit range and the feats "overwhelming critical" and "devastating critical" make a huge difference, when you can afford them. These feats favor the use of scimitars and rapiers with their standard 18-20 crit range, but who would use them on a fighter, the only likely candidate to aquire these feats? ;)

    * Weaponsmasters receive at class lvl-5 an improvement that lowers the crit range of their weapon of choice by one - that is instead of the standard 19-20 of a longsword it would be 18-20. For simplification that leaves out effects like "keen" and the "improved critical" feat.

    [ January 19, 2004, 00:40: Message edited by: Ragusa ]
     
  10. Lokken Gems: 26/31
    Latest gem: Diamond


    Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2001
    Messages:
    2,323
    Likes Received:
    0
    please remember that any enhancements bonuses are multipled too. For a +10 that's a lot.

    Now lets consider the average munchkin weapon of NWN having elemental damage of +2d6. For reasons unknown these are multiplied as well.

    so that's 10+2d6 damage extra for the scythe.

    with the epic feats, higher crits means extra d6's for the overwhelming critical feat.

    NWN is using odd rules for this stuff. In 3e scythe isn't exotic, so... *shrugs*

    just my 2cents
     
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.