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Please help me fight spell casters

Discussion in 'Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition' started by Trbrogxren, Nov 28, 2016.

  1. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    If you manage to backstab succesfully, the game will tell you like xosmi says.
    If you are using a wrong type of weapon (really only for multi/dual classes and later in ToB once you get Use Any Item), the game will tell you 'weapon unsuitable for backstab'.
    If the target is immune to backstabbing, the game will tell you 'backstab seems to have failed'.
    If you were hidden succesfully (the icon has a red square around it, and isn't greyed out), and you don't get any of the above messages, you were probably not properly behind the target, and it just registers as a normal hit.
     
  2. Trbrogxren Gems: 2/31
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    Oh I see! Thanks
     
  3. xosmi Gems: 20/31
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    To expand a bit on henkie's explanation about 'unusable weapons' - this occurs when you use a weapon thar a single class thief could normally not use, either because of proficiency granted by a secondary class, or later in the game when you unlock the Use All Items high level ability, alowing you to wield any weapon regardless of class restrictions.

    One famous example is the Staff of the magi - it allows you to turn invisible on equipping, but even while invisible it won't allow you to backstab since it is a mage only weapon. That's why as a thief/mage you're better off using mislead + staff of the ram if you want to use backstab cheese. :p
     
  4. Trbrogxren Gems: 2/31
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    You know, I never really learnt how to use magic properly in this game. There are so many spells I don't know how to use, or I don't know what they do. I guess I should check out FAQs or forum posts on the subject... but it also seems like the usefulness of each spell depends on how you play the game.
     
  5. xosmi Gems: 20/31
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    I understand, since there is a lot going on.
    The problem lies not only in knowing in what spell does what, but also in which situations it will work well.
    For example, a fireball is simple enough, doing AoE fire damage - but you'll have to take in account resistances as well, a creature with 100% fire resistance will take no damage at all, regardless of how many fireballs you launch at them.
    Besides elemental resistances, there's magic resistance too - you're usually better of pummeling the offending enemy instead of launching spells at them if they have high MR%, or at the very least will want to fire off some lower resistance spells first. Alternatively you can use spells that specifically state that they bypass magic resistance, but those are few and far between.

    As if that wasn't complicated enough, a large part of your spells has to deal with saving throws, and knowing which creature has high or low saving throws vs a specific category can be counter intuitive.
    Undead creatures for example will be either immune or have very good death saving throws - instead of throwing a cloudkill their way, you'd be better off using the fireball spell.

    A good thing to know is that several spells will lower the saving throws of enemy creatures, making it harder for them to resist your save-or-else spells.
    Try using glitterdust, doom and greater malison on the enemies before you fire off save-of-else spells like Charm Person, Polymorph, Domination, etc at the enemy.
     
  6. Trbrogxren Gems: 2/31
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    I've been using a guide I found years ago to sort out what spells to use... but I barely use any of them. It's basically just Magic Missile
    from the mage and the cure spells/slow poison from the clerics. The other ones I know are supposed to be good, like Greater Malison and Breach, I'm not even sure I can get in BG1.

    I'm going to try a different guide, to see if the spells they recommend are more useful to me, so I'm trying this one: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=205238783
     
  7. xosmi Gems: 20/31
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    The baldur's gate spells reference is also a good start :
    http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/Main.htm (click arcane or divine spells in the left bar)

    though the reference was never updated for the enhanced edition, most of the recommendations and info still stands today, and i like it for its brief summarries - noone wants to spend hours reading walls of text when they could be playing the game. :)
     
  8. Trbrogxren Gems: 2/31
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    Is that guide mostly for Baldur's Gate II, though?

    I'm still on the first one. Just got to the Cloakwood
     
  9. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    It is for BG2, but with the EEs, there's no longer any difference in spells between BG1 and BG2.

    Since the spell's reference was written for the original BG2, a lot of the cheese mentioned there no longer works / has been fixed with the EEs (or even the G3 fixpack for the original BG2).
     
  10. Trbrogxren Gems: 2/31
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    Oh I see, thanks
     
  11. damedog Gems: 15/31
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    The Cloakwood is the second most annoying area in the game imo. I hope you brought along a thief who can find traps :)

    Horror for mages and hold person and command for priests will take you a long way.
     
  12. Trbrogxren Gems: 2/31
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    What's the most annoying?

    I just got to Baldur's Gate. On the top floor of Sorcerous Sundries there were a group of mages that turned hostile no matter what I responded to them with. At first, they hit us with a spell that caused five out of six of my party members to "panic" and run around like headless chickens. Seeing that I couldn't stop them from turning hostile, I just reloaded a save, didn't talk to them at all, and fired fireballs at them from a distance. They didn't turn hostile, so I just totally cheesed them.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2016
  13. ConjurerDragon

    ConjurerDragon Ich dien ★ SPS Account Holder

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    You don’t have Montaron or Xzar in your party. See point 5 on this page:
    http://www.forgottenwars.com/bg1/ar0800.htm
     
  14. Trbrogxren Gems: 2/31
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    Just beat BG1. Didn't do the Tales of the Sword Coast at all because I don't remember enjoying it. BG1 was a lot easier than I remembered... the real test will be BG2, I guess.
     
  15. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    BG:EE is apparently a bit easier than the original BG.
     
  16. Trbrogxren Gems: 2/31
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    Oh okay

    I wonder if that means the second is easier
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 10, 2016
  17. xosmi Gems: 20/31
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    This isn't really the case though - as opposed to the 'original' game, the enhanced edition of BG1 introduces the ruleset as used in baldurs gate 2, and this makes it a bit easier because it introduced kits and abilities to your character that were unavailable originally, meaning that the enemies and encounters were not balanced to account for them.

    In the case of baldur's gate 2, the game has always had the kits and abilities in place and is balanced around you using them, as well as making the enemy use them on you.
    The second game is more forgiving in the regard that when following the story you are less likely to stumble into enemies too powerful for you to take on, while in the first game it is relatively easy to get sidetracked and move into areas with enemies well above your level.
     
  18. Trbrogxren Gems: 2/31
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    I guess I should do TotSC before BG2, so as to have a more powerful character to import into the second game?

    I remember that fight when you return from the dungeon and the people accidentally summon some powerful monster. Every member of my party died, so I had to leave and have them resuscitated, and I lost all the loot because it disappeared after being left on the ground while I brought the party members back to life.
     
  19. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    While what xosmi says is true, BG:EE also reduced spawns, which also makes it easier.

    You could do the TotSC content, which would increase your xp quite a significant amount. By BG standards. For BG2, you'll probably get about as much experience coming out of Irenicus' dungeon (nearly 40000 xp for each party member), so if you want to level efficiently, it's better to go directly to BG2. Most hard fights in BG2 are optional, though you'll want to prioritise getting something that'll give you immunity to level drain, because there are a lot of enemies that do that.

    That being said, you'll want to visit at least the upper levels of Durlag's tower (which is part of the TotSC content), because there's a tome of wisdom to be found there.
     
  20. xosmi Gems: 20/31
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    I'd advice you to complete BG1 + Totsc in it's entirety, as well as Siege of Dragonspear if you have it.
    If you ever run into an enemy that is too hard to take on, just look here or online for ways to take them on (or just cheese it :p)

    Many enemies are easy to deal with if you just know how to handle them - the demon knight at the bottom of durlag's tower for example can be battled a lot easier by exposing him to the mirror - it'll spawn a clone of him that will help attack the demon knight.
    In other cases, it's just a case of knowing what an enemy is weak to, so keep a good eye on the combat log.
    Demon knights have a high magic resistance and do high damage in melee range as well - after figuring these things out when going through the battle the first time, i'd strategise and probably try to create a botleneck, sending waves of summons to keep the enemy at bay while my party can damage him from afar.

    The monster that killed your entire party was probably the demon Aec'letec - his gaze has an effect that kills you outright if hit by it, but you can protect yourself from it using spells or by using a scroll of protection from magic.
     
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