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Playing evil for the first time

Discussion in 'Baldur's Gate (Classic)' started by Tharlok, Jan 9, 2010.

  1. Tharlok Gems: 5/31
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    I'm new to this board although I've been I guest for over two years. I absolutely love Balder's Gate and have completed both BG1 and BG2 a couple of times. Should have been more but I'm a cronic restarter so it took me a long time... Anyway I have always beaten the game with a good aligned party or a mixed party, so I was thinking of trying an all evil party. It's not modded and no Tales of the Sword Coast - striktly vanilla. But I thought I should get some questions answered before I try it.

    1.) Is it worth it? I mean - apart from killing Drizzt is there anything that sets it apart from a heroic party? The downside is that you must watch your reputation by either ignoring certain quests or just kill of the occational peasant.

    2.) Is it a lot harder? Missile weapons rule in BG1 and the evil guys seems to be a lot worse in this department. No Coran or Kivan means that a lot of easy kills are gone. I was thinking of playing a fighter since it is my first time as evil and I do not want to make him an archer. I prefer to go for longswords.

    3.) Since I always want to assemble my party as soon as possible I was going for Kagain, Shar-Teel (mayby dual her to a thief) and Viconia. Then the problem becomes which two to choose between Edwin, Montaron or Xzar. I really wanted to try Xzar since I never have done it before but... He seems kind of week. I know that you can dual him to a cleric but is it worth it? On the other hand, magic isn't really that important in BG1 so maybe I should drop Edwin but that seems wrong for some reason. Suggestions are welcome at this point.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2010
  2. Paromin Gems: 2/31
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    I'm guessing you're talking about a roleplay perspective since a Good party can slaughter Drizz't and just pay money at a temple to bring up their reputation. At Candlekeep you can easily farm one of the buildings there seeing as it'll spawn a whole horde of Watchers.

    Not that money is extremely hard to get in the game but a huge pile of cash from the start can go a long way.

    As for NPCs, the biggest problem I see with Evil NPCs is that there are two with below 10 Con Scores, unlike Good NPCs which are overflowing with HP.

    Anyway, you listed Kagain, best tank in the game. Fixable Dex, so you should have almost no worries with your front line with just him.

    Shar-teel should remain a Fighter, since you're playing a no-TotSC game you're only working with 89k XP. Level 7 Fighter takes 64K and that comes with 2 Proficiency Points and a natural +1/2 Attack. You won't have enough XP to reactivate Fighter levels after that and her 18 Str is simply wasted on a Thief when you consider that she's the only NPC who can reasonably wield the Composite Longbow+1. Her biggest drawback is her 9 Con.

    Montaran is another good pick, he has 17 Dex, so that makes him a pretty decent archer. And while he'll never get to Level 7 Fighter thanks to the XP cap, he does get to Level 6 so you'll get 2 Prof Slots to put into Bows.

    Viciona is the next pick, she comes with a point in Slings so no need to worry about her getting penalties. Magic Resistance goes a long way and her low Str isn't that big of a drawback thanks to all the low Str gear you get in this game. The only real problem is that she's the other 9 Con Evil NPC.

    Edwin is a far better mage than Xzar. Xzar is a necromancer, meaning he loses out on Illusion Spells which are some of the best in this game. While Edwin is a Conjurer and he only loses out on Divination Spells, the most useful of which is Identify but you can equip most of the unidentified items and still get the bonuses as for those which you really can't use without identification just pay someone to do it for you.
     
  3. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    The evil game is a lot of fun.

    I like to keep two mages if possible (two mages with fireball makes every battle a lot easier). Edwin is great, but Xzar is an absolute riot. Montaron is a beast. Use Viconia then choose either Shar-Teel or Kagain. Shar-Teel has good strength, but is weak in hp's. Kagain can be a real tank. Go ahead and choose bows for your character (** swords, ** bows to start with -- get a third * in longswords as soon as possible), give Kagain the magic throwing axe when you get it (chapter 6). Between the mages, Montaron, Viconia and your main character you'll have plenty of firepower -- with good armor Kagain can keep the bad guys away long enough to pepper them down.

    Evil is easy to play, hit point are overrated for the back line, and it's easy to keep the reputation sufficently low without becoming a psychopathic killer.

    By the way you can't kill Drizz't without using significant cheese. He'll tear your party apart even late in the game. Sarevok and his lackies are wimps compared to Drizz't. [I had to surround him with characters, dismiss them all, then attack him with arrows and a halberd -- I could only hit him on critical hits.]
     
  4. Paromin Gems: 2/31
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    Actually, there are others options in this game to use to rain Fireballs with.

    You have Wands of Fire (Bard can use) and Arrows of Detonation (Archers), which is why having too many Mages isn't really as good as Archers since one of their best abilities is duplicated by items in this game and do it better. Level 7 Warrior Class + Haste + Arrows of Detonation is just overkill for almost anything that isn't immune to Fire or Magic.

    Or you could just take Eldath instead of Xzar, he can pepper fireballs off Wands of Fire and still be able to wield bows (although not as quick as a dedicated bowman)
     
  5. Tharlok Gems: 5/31
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    Thanks for your suggestions! I wasn't really thinking about putting together the best party that the world has ever seen. It was more an opportunity to try out some "new" characters and possibly have to adjust my strategy. Boy did that happen...

    I hadn't really decided which one of Xzar, Montaron and Edwin I should leave out. As it turned out, I didn't have to decide. When I arrived in Nashkel Neira killed Montaron! Neira? She has never, ever killed someone in my parties before. Since I was still in shock I decided that I was gonna go with this as a sign of who should miss out on an evil adventure.

    I rolled some nice stats (got 18/89 for STR) and decided to play my evil version of Khalid. Mening that I put ** in large swords and ** in bows, with the idea of using a twohanded sword so my character can use a bow. I didn't really wanna do it but I realised that I had to if I should survive.

    One really fun bit is the fact that I had to take a different tour than i used to all these times I used a good party. I completly ignored the Friendly Arms Inn and went straight to Nashkel. Picked up Edwin and then went for Shar-Teel. Since Montaron died I have no other option than dual her to a thief. Not the greatest solution I know but this time I'm going for more of a good time. Is it possible to backstab with a longsword? Anyway, got Viccy and told Imoen to go to... well whereever she wants to go that isn't near me. Well at least it's going to be different... Killing Minsc was probably the best so far. Like the guy in the sequel but here is just a pain.

    And finally Drizzt... Yes I know that he is very, very hard to beat (I did it once just to try) and it required som really cheesy tactics. But at the moment I'm not looking for the stars. Getting the party slaughtered by the evil cleric Bassilus three times in a row has made me more humble... So for the moment it's kobolds and Xvarts that will feel my wrath!
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2010
  6. Paromin Gems: 2/31
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    There's one not so cheese-y way to beat Drizz't as it makes a tiny bit of sense in an actual RP-situation.

    Use the Boots of Speed on an Archer then rain down arrows on Drizz't, run when he just about gets into melee range, turn around and shoot him some more. Although this would eventually end up with a player hitting then moving into the fog of war and the AI giving up when the threat is gone.

    Other options include Haste or any item that duplicates it's effects, like the Oil of Speed.
     
  7. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

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    1) It's incredibly fun and 2) it's not that hard either provided you take into account that a smart evil PC is not necessarily going to trust evil NPCs that much.

    I don't feel like posting again about all the points that've been made but check this thread: Evil that should interest you.

    3) Trusting Xzar or Monty seems like something only a suicidal or very naive character would do. A Wizard is almost useless at lower levels so Xzar becomes really good when he starts getting better spells after he has gained a few levels.

    I haven't completed my run through BG2 but I did complete the BG 1 part with Tutu playing a NE Jester. I know it's a bit off topic since I played with Tutu but you may want to have a look at it. I wanted to demonstrate that being evil was more than being a psycho (link).
     
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  8. Tharlok Gems: 5/31
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    Ok, now it seems to be going well... After a horrible start (getting killed by almost anything) the party are finally capable of winning battles. It changed when Kagain reached level 3, since he almost singlehanded could hold back a lot of enemies. The only slight problem right now is that Edwin and Xzar cannot use missile weapons and are relying on their spells. Since they don't have that many it is really crucial to choose the right battles. Otherwise they just have to stay out of the way.

    Dualing Shar-Teel to a thief was a fun move that really works well. For instance, it made the whole battle with the four assassins (after the mines) a lot easier. One backstab and I got rid of that annoying archer with poison arrows. She also looks cool with the Shadow armour.

    It really is a whole new experience since I have to play my party a lot more defensive than what I'm used to. But it's fun to once again be challenged and I'm not taking my "normal" route so it is really different. Have just killed Tranzig in Beregost and going for the Bandit Camp. It's a little earlier than I'm used to but with a little luck and a lot of arrows, it should work. Or maybe with a lot of healing potions...
     
  9. Midget Gems Gems: 2/31
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    I have Xzar in my party and at first I used a lot of throwing daggers, he did ok with them. To replenish the supply of daggers I made trips to High Hedges to restock. For role playing I duelled him to Cleric. At first he had too few hitpoints to fight melee, but at higher levels he is doing well.
     
  10. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    How come no one had mentioned Tiax? Great comments spew from his mouth. Quayle as well. There is also Faldorn, she has a darker nature and would fit in an evil-party I would think.
     
  11. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

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    I'm a big fan of the little guy. The only bad thing about him is that in BG you get him way too late.
     
  12. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Kind of. But if you just stick to the story line and get the minimum levels needed to reach the city of BG, you can still leave alot of the wilderness undiscovered, leaving plenty of time to wander the countryside with Tiax in tow, spitting out his rhetoric. His stats suck, but who cares. BG doesn't require mega-powerful characters to win the game. Even better I say!:)
     
  13. Midget Gems Gems: 2/31
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    [​IMG] One of the most fun parties I ever had was Me + Tiax & Quayle. I think I was a Cleric/Ranger so we were all doing Slingshots and Blunt weapons.

    I like Tiax, as well as his crazy comments he makes a great team-leader. Who else can be out in front doing trap finding (and lock picks) while in Sanctuary? And you are right, stats are not important it's tactics that count. Also, Cleric/Magic is a great combo whatever the numbers say.
     
  14. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

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    Tiax is a cleric/thief, Quayle is the cleric/mage.
     
  15. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    [​IMG] Well, Tiax is a thief... Maybe he stole Qualye's identity for a little while......:p
     
  16. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Ha Ha! Smart guy dies! But Tiax goes on to RULE!

    ... hmmm ... I don't think Tiax was interested in identity theft.
     
  17. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I do. I think he was trying to steal Cyric's identity. He does claim to be a god afterall....
     
  18. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    The best comment comes from Xzar:

    I wanted infravision like the elves... But 'tis more than just taking their eyes...

    Which is particularly good when you're playing an elf.
     
  19. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    My 1st run thru I picked up Xzar and Monty in the beginning. Xzar started spewing out some funny stuff. Though I was a Good F/C, I kept them around just to hear all of his comments. That pair was great. Especially after adding in some good characters.
     
  20. Paromin Gems: 2/31
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    Obligatory explicit statement of "you can finish the game with any combination" which really should have been implied, but whatever, now that's out of the way.

    A late game Thief is usually never a good option unless he has amazing stats or has a particular stat which is going to be useful from the point you get him.

    The reason here is that your party would already have a Thief who does everything you need it to do. And of all the classes, Cleric isn't really the best to combo in with a Thief in BG1, especially one so late. The Cleric is another one of those classes most players would already have, so unless the new Cleric has really good stats or is a Fighter/Cleric (with respectable stats) then they aren't really that useful.

    Tiax has 9 STR, making for a poor front liner and backstabber (if the game allows for Quarter Staff backstabbing anyway) and while 16 CON is respectable, Kagain's 20 Con + Gauntlets of Dexterity is more than sufficient.

    And since Clerics deny bows and darts, you're left with Slings. Which aren't really that good since Bullets don't have nice enchantments like Arrows. Nor do Slings have Bonus APR. Then added to that neither the Cleric or Thief gets the innate APR bonus (not that it would matter in a unmodded no TotSC BG1 playthrough seeing as only pure Fighters get the +.5 Level 7 APR)

    Tiax is gimped from almost every angle.

    The only strategic reason for picking Tiax is so you can kick Viconia and whoever your Thief is out of the party. But Viconia justifies her slot well thanks to her MgR and Montaron is an excellent Fighter, while Shar-teel makes for an excellent Thief

    Gameplay wise Tiax is simply the worst Evil NPC in this game, character-wise well that's subjective.
     
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