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Party of four or five

Discussion in 'Icewind Dale 2' started by Mati, Sep 15, 2021.

  1. Mati Gems: 1/31
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    I thought about a bit smaller party of goody two shoes, knight-errants. I don't think about doing HOF with said party later. I don't plan to minmax like crazy, if possible (so no fighter with 3 INT). I know that I need 2 tanks, cleric and mage. Here's a list:
    1. Pal 1 Sorc x, human or Aasimar, bomber and diplomat; max CHA and CON, raise INT and DEX a bit
    2. Pal 8 Fighter x, Shield Dwarf, tank; max CON and STR, raise (and concentrate later on) CHA
    3. Pal 1 Cleric of Ilmater x, Aasimar OR Pal 4 Fighter 4 Cleric x, FDrow, battlecleric; max WIS, CON, raise STR and CHA
    4. Pal 1 Wiz x, human or moon elf OR Pal 1 Rog 2 Wiz x, MDrow (in that case I wouldn't need 5th character), summoner; max INT, raise DEX and CON
    5. (Optional) Pal 1 Rog 2 Fighter x, Shield Dwarf, thief (locks, traps) and tank support; max CON, raise INT, CHA and DEX

    I have some questions:
    1. Should I invest in ECL races or choose plain humans (battlecleric drow may be bad cleric, after all)?
    2. Should I include thief or rather rely on wizard?

    EDIT: Another option:
    - Don't bother with Ilmater battlecleric, make him (or her) full cleric
    - Create Tempus battlecleric as summoner and tank
    - And there's optional Rog 2 Wiz x, if I really need him (well, battlecleric can set off most of traps and open locks by force)
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
  2. SlickRCBD Gems: 26/31
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    If you are going with 8 levels of paladin, you'll want at least 12 wisdom (preferably 13) and a positive CHA bonus.

    As for the cleric, you're probably better off going pure until you get at least 7th level spells. You can do the mix-in at level 20 if you go for HoF. Maybe mix in one level of paladin if you need the saving throw bonuses, but in general you want those cleric spells and a decent CHA bonus for turning. In fact, if you go asimar, you might want to only do 18 WIS and use the extra 3 points to raise CHA, then raise WIS to 19 at level 16.
    In any case, a cleric would want a positive CHA bonus for turning, high wisdom, and decent STR, and CON since they can be decent fighters with their buffs. You can skimp on DEX by using heavy armor, but you don't want to go below 10.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
  3. Mati Gems: 1/31
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    OK, here's my team just before final battles (with halfdragons and twins):
    - Aasimaar fighter (6) paladin (11)
    - Shield Dwarf fighter (4) priest of Tempus (13)
    - femdrow paladin (1) priestess of Ilmater (15)
    - mdrow paladin (1) rogue (2) wizard (13)
    - human paladin (1) sorcerer (17)
    Game was more balanced in chapter 1 (it was easier, although I aimed a bridge too far). Harder fights included those damned Lost Followers (yet they're easier to kill), final chamber in monastery and Saablic Tan with his group. M'darfein and Xvim were surprisingly easy opponents.
    Dwarf is a killer, but a bit fragile despite huge health, very good armor and buffs.
    Priestess starts to shine, 200 kills thanks to throwing axe from squares in addition to nice buffing/healing spells.
    Wizard is bad. Got two levels of rogue in mid-game because he couldn't open locks and disable traps. Has some spells, but still a bit useless. Fragile despite various buffs.
    Aasimaar is really good at fighting and occassional self-healing.
    Sorcerer is excellent. OK in terms of defence, really deadly (FoD and HW are nasty despite not having GSF) and good summoner.
    In comparison to my previous parties this one is a bit more experienced (by one level each), but it really makes a difference. Wizard is lagging and lacking, but it's probably due to ECL (and small paladin buff doesn't really help).
     
  4. SlickRCBD Gems: 26/31
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    Because of the ECL, I'd have suggested putting the rogue levels on the sorcerer. Then they would both be caster level 15.
    Alternately, you could have done Aasimaar fighter(4)/Rogue(3)/Paladin(10), although that is tricky since you have to do two levels of rogue, two levels of fighter, and another rogue level before starting on the Paladin and can never advance the rogue again or you sacrifice paladin advancement.
    If you wanted the six fighter levels (not sure why you chose fighter(6) instead of fighter(4)) you'd have to wait until level 12 before taking paladin levels to avoid the multi-classing penalty. With only fighter 4 you only have to wait until level 6 to take a paladin level, although you won't actually get Fighter(4) unless you wait until level 8. Here's the breakdown, and I started with rogue at level 1 for the bonus skill points.
    1. level 1 Rogue [R1]
    2. level 2 fighter [R1/F1]
    3. level 3 rogue [R2/F1]
    4. level 4 fighter [R2/F2]
    5. level 5 rogue [R3/f2]*
    6. level 6 fighter [r3/f3]
    7. level 7 rogue [r4/f3]
    8. level 8 fighter [r4/f4]
    9. level 9 rogue [r5/f4]**
    10. level 10 fighter [r5/f5]
    11. level 11 fighter [r5/f6]
    12. level 12 paladin [r5/f6/pX]
    * At this point if you only want four fighter levels and 3 rogue levels you can take a paladin level at your next level up. Choose Paladin of Helm and you can take the other two fighter levels later and get your saving throw bonuses right away, then go for two more fighter levels to get your weapon specialization, then go paladin to start getting your spells.
    **After reaching this point you can start on paladin levels if you choose "Paladin of Helm", then take the last two fighter levels at your leisure.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2022
  5. Mati Gems: 1/31
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    What would my heavy armored and stupid (low intelligence) pally gain from rogue levels? She isn't very wise (14 base wisdom) or agile (14 dexterity) so even equally evasive monk also is no-go. Heavy investment in paladin is mostly due to lay on hands, which is very occassional (because at this point my clerics have a lot of healing spells). At least fighter has more feats. However, priest of Tempus could be better with two rogue levels (again, evasion).
    I can see merit of giving 2 rogue levels for my sorcerer (skill points and evasion), though (on the other hand, she's quite durable despite the lowest AC in party).
    To be honest, I think that drow rogue-wizard would fare better in smaller party. 5 men group is still too large for triple-class drow to be effective.

    And final fight with that team was surprisingly tedious and difficult.

    Time for even smaller party. Priest (yet another drowess), barb druid (half-orc), sorcerer (hooman) and rogue-monk with heavy dose of transmuter or demarch (chose tiefling for this).
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
  6. Beren

    Beren Lovesick and Lonely Wanderer Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Some classes do NOT mix and match. Pally and Rogue is as close as you can get to that. The heavy armor that Paladins will want to wear will have a low maximum Dexterity bonus, and that will hamper everything a Rogue does, like disarming traps and Evasion.

    Some classes DO mesh, and Rogue and Wizard are an awesome fit. Three levels of Rogue for Evasion, then Wizard all the way. You'll still get plenty of skill points to distribute with high Intellect.

    https://sorcerers.net/Games/IWD2/tactics2/party/tithian.php
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
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    I was thinking of sneak attack bonus, as the fighter/thief in IWD1 is actually quite good. Sorry, confusing games.
     
  8. Laclongquan Gems: 5/31
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    Rogue is best mixed with Fighter 4 as a bow specialist, sneaky scout, disabler of traps, but NOT as backstabber. The maxed Dexterity and bow specialization from Fighter 4 make sure F4Rogue is a machinegun, changing ammo depending on situation and making full use of the VARIOUS magical arrows, very important to HoF where you can get boatload of such things.

    RoF4 is a superb utility role in HoF. And all it ask is sacrificing backstab option in particular and melee in general.

    Comparable to RoF4 would be Bard, but require abusing songs. Without stacking songs, Bard is of lesser use
     
  9. Mati Gems: 1/31
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    My 4 grlass cannons were a bit messy, so i left them and tried another 5 person party (guess it works fine for me: 5 men including one-two ECL). I thought about casting rogue and chose tiefling with 16-20-12-14-15-1. So far I'm about to visit govlin warrens and she's level 5 (effective 6). I plan to give her monk levels and certain axe, but currently I think about 10-12 levels of Mask priest. She's mostly for support, summoning and scouting, not much for a backstabbing.
     
  10. Mati Gems: 1/31
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    Re-visiting old thread. I have saves for both teams (4 glass cannons and tiefling group) at the end of the game and here're the results:
    1. Barbodruid orc and barb(11) fighter (6) dwarf are killing machines
    2. Tiefling monko-wizardo-rogue is ok as a support, I guess
    3. Drow clerics and human sorcerers are very good (provided they're properly built)
    4. Tiefling Mask-rogue is a mistake
    5. Glass cannon group struggled whole time, partially becuase I forgot to raise CON for my socreress and tiefling weirdo (but mostly because the're often overwhelmed), 5 people didn't have such problems

    Time for another 5 folks. I'm a bit bored with constant human sorc/pal, so I want to try somethin else:
    - wild elf Sorc X/Monk 3/Fighter 2 (stats: 6/20/10/8/14/18) or altrenatively Sorc X/Monk2/Bane1 (6/20/14/1/17/18). First one allows for more feats (including elemental ones), second will be more durable. I'm not quite sure about it.
    - dwarf cleric, probably also Bane
    - dwarf fighter 10; not sure if I should later go for barbarian or monk (barb for sure will be destructive).
    - DG monk (first time full monk and first time gnome)
    - I need a diplomat (not to buy and sell stuff, but for negotiations). Initially I thought about rogue-wizard, probably drow, halfling or tiefling (with boosted charisma ofc), but I realized there's also a bard class, so maybe rogue-bard (I've never played as bard, though).?
     
  11. Beren

    Beren Lovesick and Lonely Wanderer Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Well, your other four characters look like they can handle themselves in front-line combat. So a Charisma-heavy bard will definitely work if you're tired or Paladins and / or Sorcerers.

    You might also want this character to include a couple of Rogue levels, both to build up thieving skills (besides Pickpocket) and Evasion at 2nd level Rogue.

    Bard's War Song of the Sith can be a game changer, especially when used with the other characters you have in mind.
     
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